A Reader Writes (in part):
There are quite a few couples and families who I know would love to not only have one parent stay home with the children, but they quite honestly would love to have a large family too. However, most just do not feel that they can afford to have more than 1 or 2 children. I do believe them when they say that if they could find a way to do this, they would do it. I wonder, can you and your readers share with me the particulars of how you do this? I do think there are quite a few people here who truly are interested, and would very much like to know!
It’s conventional wisdom to say that kids are expensive. Page through any popular parenting magazine and you’ll find countless examples of the ways in which children “cost” their parents: Sacrificed careers and promotions, essential baby gear, specialized clothing, and education all add up. Sometimes you’ll even find a helpful break down of all the costs of raising a child from birth to age 18, with a grand total guaranteed to scare your socks off.
Thankfully, however, not all of the “stuff” parenting experts consider essential truly is. And thankfully again, no one requires you to pay up front for 18 years worth of child-related expenses.
I do recognize that much of our modern world is set up for 2-income households of 2 parents with no more than 2 children. This can make it difficult for those of us who do things differently. Difficult at times, but not impossible. Some large families move to areas where the cost of living is low. Some large families establish small businesses to earn more income. Some large families keep only one car or live in a smaller house to keep their costs low.
Of course God gave humans the capacity for reason so that we might use it and of course not all of us are called to have dozens of children. But it is also true that God calls us to trust in him to provide for our material needs and that he rewards our faithfulness and trust.
The right balance between trusting in Divine Providence and using reason to plan our families and provide for our material needs will be different for every family. Where you live and what education, skills, or opportunities you and your spouse have will in large part determine what makes the most sense for your family.
It has been my personal experience, however, that the old saying I once heard about each new baby coming with his own loaf of bread is true. Over the course of having our 8 children in the past 13 years, we have certainly had our share of financial woes. God has sometimes left us hanging for what seemed an uncomfortably long period of time by my human standards, but he has always has provided for our family in the end. Abundantly so. And I wouldn’t change a thing.
BTW, I LOVE Liz’z comment below!! This is how I was raised. Thanks Liz for sharing this – and you are so right.
There were 7 of us kids and only one income. But we were happy and are all still close today. My parents consider all their children and grandchildren as their greatest riches and wouldn’t change it for the world!
I really appreciate those who have stated about their own experiences paying for college through work study and grants. I guess I had a problem because my parents were dual incomes paying off a lot of debt. I had academic scholarships that paid for half of college, but only qualified for student loans for the rest. I didn’t realize that having more children would bump you up into the grants again. That’s reassuring to hear!
I know, I know, I am a little caught up with the college thing. But to me, this isn’t like providing them with a car, or a house, once they are grown. This is enabling them to provide for themselves in a world where a college education is increasingly becoming a necessity in many(though not all) fields. We do our part, drive old cars, shop thrifty, live in a modest house, so I can be home. But this is one thing we feel we need to provide for. If we can get work study help, all the better!
I agree with your comments, Michele! Requiring your kids to pay for college themselves is like throwing them to the (financial) wolves. I got through college with no loans, and my wife had less than $15k in loans, and even that has a noticeable adverse effect on our family which has an above average income (though with six kids).
Basically, you have to keep their loans as low as possible – as a rule of thumb, I’d say around $15k is the absolute maximum, though there may be exceptions if the child is going into a very high paying career. We told our oldest daughter (starting college next year) that we could pay a certain amount, and that we STRONGLY discourage her from taking out more than $10-15k in loans. Otherwise, like Michele said, you are consigning them into a debt situation that they may never climb out of.
Don’t talk about stories of how you paid your way through college by working. I did too, but the costs of college now are so exorbitant that this is pretty much impossible. The college I went to 20 years ago now charges significantly more for one year of college than I paid for the entire 4 years. The inflation rate has not gone up nearly THAT much.
Helping your child reach adulthood means not just providing them with a roof, food, and faith formation till they are 18 (this is just an arbitrary age our society has set); it means helping them to be able to be independent in the world. Putting college solely on their shoulders can put a monkey on their back for the rest of their lives.
As a middle class family making enough money so that even having six kids doesn’t help us get enough aid to make things easy, this has been very difficult for us. I think we may have to be draining emergency savings to some extent, but I can’t in conscience let my daughter start her adult life with a mountain of debt hanging over her.
I just wanted to point out that my previous post was not about whether a parent should or should not pay for their children to go to college but rather why limiting the number of children you have should NOT be based on whether you can afford to send your children to college or not. I would rather be from a family of 15 children with little money and have to work my way through college than be from a home where my parents decided not to have any more children so that they could afford to send me to college. I think that this topic has turned into whether a parent should pay or not but the question that was asked is "How can you afford a large family?" Does this mean that some of you actually believe that limiting your family size in order to pay for your exsisting children’s college is a valiad reason?
Dave, I don’t mean to be contrary, but as I graduated in 2004 and paid for the bulk of my education, I can say with fairly recent stats that yes, you CAN work enough to pay your way through school.
I got free room and board through being a resident advisor, and as I was at a state school, the 3000 a year for classes was mainly met through summer waitressing jobs. Where there is a will there is a way. I feel like the experience gave me great ownership on my education and kept me out of trouble.
Hi! I am a stay at home mom with five kids 2-9.
This is how our family handles finances in a nutshell.
1. We pray a lot and trust in God!
-During labor with #5 I prayed for more money and my husband recieved an "unplanned" raise.
2. We budget our money on paper and do not overspend.
-Dave Ramsey has great ideas!
3. We plan ahead.
-I hate suprises! We save for big payments like car insurance.
4. We go without sometimes.
-cable, cell phones,new cars,fancy restaurants!
5. Praise God for all the good things he gives us!
-Health, faith, and even the ability to birth children! I know too many infertile couples!
Good Luck. Motherhood is a proud profession and children are a blessing! Please know that God will not be out done in genorousity!
I’ll echo what the anonymous person directly below said. There are just too many opportunities available that allow students who are willing to put forth the effort to go to school at little or no cost.
I’ll be a Senior in college this fall, and my family hasn’t contributed anything toward paying for college. They probably would have, but I chose to go to a state school where I could pay for everything through academic scholarships and financial aid instead of going to one of the more prestigious schools that accepted me. I actually collect money from the school each semester because I found several outside scholarships that add up to more than the cost each term. Perhaps a diploma from one of those "Big Name" schools might have been more impressive to some people than the one I’ll get from my University of Tennessee extension campus, but I’ve gotten a great education there, not to mention that it was a much more sound financial decision for me and for my family. So much of what one gets out of school is directly related to what one puts in. The prestige of the institution is very little assurance that an individual will actually become educated.
When, God willing, I raise a family some day, I will not feel that I owe it to my children to pay their ways through college. Perhaps that will mean that they won’t get to go to a "Big Name" university, but given the utter godlessness at most such institutions, I won’t really consider that a great loss.
OK, I wasn’t trying to say that there is no way that one could work their way through ANY college. Some states have very low in-state tuition rates, and some kids are close enough to live at home. With that combination, clearly one could do it. Or if you are one of the elite students who can get great scholarships, you can do it. Or if your family is poor enough, you might be able to do it, with all the aid.
There are situations in which one can do it, but they don’t apply to everyone. My point was, I could do it without any of those advantages. Now, I don’t see how that could happen – you need help in some form.
In general, though, moving to another subject, I don’t know if it is even possible, in general, to make family planning decisions based on college affordibility. By the time most families have children entering college, the mom is at or near the end of childbearing age anyway. It is impossible to project far enough ahead to even know whether one could afford college or not.
The reason that my hair stood on ends when the college topic came up in this question of the week is because I have heard mothers say "We CAN"T have any more children, how would we afford their college?" Yep, not just once but several times. That reasoning is just an excuse, just like "our house is too small" or "if we had more we wouldn’t be able to give each child quality time" and on and on. If there is a will there is a way and though I don’t mean to judge I do think that limiting your family size should only be done in dire curcumstances. Not if it is hard to pay your bill every once in awhile or if you can’t afford a college fund. If that were the case, my two small ones would not be here and their LIFE is more important than college or affording my wants rather than just our needs. Now I will step off my soapbox!!
We so far have only one child (but, let me tell you, infertility treatments, even the morally licit ones, are just as expensive as actually having a baby…) so we are not struggling in our personal finances at this point. But both of us grew up in homes with NO extra money so we learned the difference between wants and needs very early in life. Some things we remember and still do to make it possible for me to stay home no matter how many kids we end up with:
1.homemade Christmases. My parents would tell us up front that there was no money for purchased gifts and so we made things or gave something we had that we knew a sibling liked.
2. no cable, video game systems, or "extras" like that.
3. very careful grocery shopping (and even with that my husband remembers a few occasions when they had a popcorn and apple pie picnic for dinner because that’s all the food they had. The kids thought that was great fun!)
4. tithing. Someone else mentioned this one, but it’s true, God does reward our generosity with Him.
5. total trust in God. My mom never bought raffle tickets – there wasn’t any extra money – but on a couple of occasions, when the car broke down or one of us kids needed medicine that there was no money for, she would suddenly find that my grandpa had purchased a winning parish raffle ticket for her. Once a family friend, who was a long-time friend, but never sent gifts or money or anything, sent an out-of-the-blue check for the exact amount that we needed. These surprises from God weren’t a substitute for careful planning on my parents’ part, but they did come when there was just no other way. God really does provide when we follow His will.
Children are the poor man’s riches. So with our seven kids (ages 9 and under) we are rich! My husband’s wages come out to way less than $5000 per family member per year. And the cost of living here is high (Alaska). But we are hoping for more children!
When I shop for groceries, I buy ingredients, not pre-cooked meals. I have a pre-set limit that I won’t spend more than and I stick to it. It’s $2 for a pound of meat, and it was $1 for vegetable matter, though lately I have to increase to $1.30 for vegetables. Which means there is hardly anything in the store that I will let myself buy. It’s difficult while I’m in the store and seeing everyone pile expensive, varied, convenient items in their cart. But it’s good for the pocketbook and I manage to serve a varied diet by stocking up on things on sale. There are lots of foods our kids NEVER get at home, but they have each other. We don’t eat junk food, so we are all healthy.
And it’s a good thing, too. Because my husband told me we could have insurance, or a place to live. I chose the home. The kids do qualify for medicaid, but my husband and I are uninsured.
I have seen some people talk of their husband working jobs that aren’t lucrative. My husband has, to the consternation of some family members, passed up opportunities to make more money and climb the ladder, because we felt it would worsen our quality of life. Who cares if he makes more money if he never is home to spend time with the kids? Who cares if he gets more esteem at work if those he lives with lose respect for him by putting the job ahead of the family? I know that the job is a means of supporting the family, but TIME is the one irreplaceable factor in this whole equation. We can make bucketloads of money if we want after the kids are grown, but right now I want to concentrate on making future men and women of character. And that takes our time and attention, not money.
I would like to jump in on the comments about college tuition. We have no experience yet, but our oldest will be a junior in high school at home this year and the college discussion began awhile ago. Our daughter does very well in school, and is the oldest of our nine children, but will not be eligible for grants or needs scholarships because my husband makes a good income. A good income, but not good enough to send nine or more kids to college! We are saving enough to help each child, but it will probably amount to about one year in a state college (around $10-15K per child). It is also a great help to children to give them room and board for free while they go to college.
So in discussing this with our daughter, we put the issue back in her lap. Question number 1: What are your main goals in life (where do you see yourself in 10 or 20 years). For her, the answer was that she would like to be married and have a pile of kids and stay home with them. That’s a noble goal. But we advised her that Prince Charming may not come along according to her time table, and she needs to plan for college and an income.
Question number 2: What do you want to study in college? That’s a tough question for most 16-18 year olds to answer. She has an idea but isn’t quite sure. She is sure that she doesn’t want to invest four years of time and money in a degree that she may never use or being in a field that she ends up not liking. She is also sure that she doesn’t want to go into debt. She would rather bring money, not debt to a marriage.
She was in on a very interesting conversation with some of the other home schooled moms and teens last fall during one of our weekly hikes. We were all discussing the college issue (how to pay for it) and my friend Mary, who has a four year degree in psychology said to our other friend Mary Beth "Your technical degree in medical transcription is worth much more and is more marketable today than my four year degree." Mary’s point was that as a new graduate, or as a mom wanting to return to the workforce, she would have to go on to get at least a Master’s degree for her 4 year degree to mean anything. Whereas Mary Beth could earn a good supplemental income right now, even doing her work from home.
Our daughter started thinking and discussing with us her interest in nursing, but not in a four year RN degree. She is looking at going to a one year LPN program, graduating when she’s 19, and making about $30,000 a year. That’s a great salary for a 19 year old in the mid-west who also wants to live at home to save money. She then can either work for many years if she is satisfied with her job or she can work for a few years, save money, and go back for the four year in nursing or in some other field if that is where God is leading. I’m sure not all of our kids will follow the same path; we just take it one at a time and help guide them where God is leading.
When deciding if you should not have more children because you can’t afford to pay for their college, consider this. The first and most important gift you give a child is the gift of LIFE. I’d venture to say that all of our kids would be grateful for that gift of life even if we couldn’t help them with one penny of their college. They are also all VERY grateful for the gift of their siblings. They adore their younger sibs and wouldn’t trade them for an all expenses paid trip to college.
Michele said ;
"And when you are getting an engineering degree while working near full time, the stress is bad enough that a couple of times I was close to a complete meltdown.Do we subject our children to these trials knowingly, or do we not have as large a family? "
I chuckled when I read your comment Michele because the being close to a complete meltdown could describe where I’ve been as an adult several times. Like when I had six kids under the age of 7 and was home schooling and had an elderly relative living with us. Even now, sometimes the pressure of having nine kids, which means teaching seven different grade levels and having a 2 year old and 4 year old get into all kinds of things while we school, AND being the ripe "old age" of 43 (I’m much more tired than when I was 30), and trying to also be the mom and laundress and cook and chauffer and cleaner, well, it can all be a crushing burden at times. And I sometimes feel like I’m going to meltdown!
So is it a bad situation? No, actually, I think my husband and I are living God’s call for us, for our family. And I think that the times that I had before I was married – the near meltdowns from the stress of college, work, and other burdens, helped me to prepare for the biggest task of my life…..being the mother of a large home schooling family. Now that may not be the same task that God has for you, but maybe He allowed you that stressful time in college in order to build up your strength for the tasks ahead that He will ask of you. I wouldn’t say that having a larger family automatically subjects your children to a stressful college experience because you can’t pay for it. Each child has a different temperament, and different gifts in intellect. I wouldn’t loose sleep over it – deal with the circumstances of the day, and turn the rest over to God. And yes, if you can, tuck away some money for your kids’ college. But we certainly don’t feel it is an obligation as parents. I loved the quote about getting our kids to heaven, not Harvard. Harvard would be nice, but heaven is much more eternal.
Thank you to those who shared particulars in how you "afford" to be generous in the size of your families. Whether you have a few or a handful of blessings, you are helpful examples to those of us who are just getting started in growing our families.
One last comment. I promise !
Michele said ;
And when you are getting an engineering degree while working near full time, the stress is bad enough that a couple of times I was close to a complete meltdown.Do we subject our children to these trials knowingly, or do we not have as large a family?
In my case, I have been studying for my Masters degree while working full time and raising a family of 7. I have mangaged to complete the program in less than 2 years, and have not paid a dime thanks to the Department of Education. There have been a few times where I was close to a meltdown, but I survived, and am still alive and kicking. Hopefully I have instilled in my children the importance of education while doing this. Our family also makes too much money like Teresa, and we never really got too much financial aide for college tuition. Still have 2 more to put through, and it’s tough. But as I said in my last post, the responsibility lies in how much the son or daughter wants it, and shows us that he or she is determined to do well.
Here’s a simple solution to putting your kids through college: Move to Georgia!
ANY student who graduates from high school with a 3.0 GPA or higher can go to any GA state school for FREE (including the highly rated Univ of GA ang GA Tech). It’s all paid for by the state’s HOPE scholarship.
Tennessee has a lottery program that is patterned after the Georgia one mentioned below, the main exception being that TN just lowered the GPA requirement, so anyone who graduates with more than a C can get it. The amount they give covers full tuition (but not quite all of tuition plus room and board) at a state school or can be used toward tuition at any private school within the state’s borders. The lottery also provides additional money to students who maintain above a 3.8 and to students whose parents’ expected contribution (according to the FAFSA) is below a certain level (basically, if you qualify for Pell Grants, you also get the lottery bonus).
Danielle is right God does not call all to have a large family. I marvel at the ways God works in all families in the Church whether they have 15 kids or 1. The Church tells us to plan our families responsibily but doesn’t give specifics and leaves it up to a couple for discernment. Some feel they should continue to have more kids unless they live in dire circumstances(such as those found in 3rd world countries). I think the range of what couples consider responsible varies tremendously and we can’t really place judgment on that decision a couple makes between themselves and God. If a couple wants to consider planning for college
as part of that decision I don’t think it is unacceptable.
I know that doesn’t answer the question. I often come in late and ramble so bear with me. Planning and being wise financially from the begining really created a strong foundation for us and enabled me to be home even when DH didn’t make much money. Yard sales for clothes and all the usually frugal things and no debt except the mortgage which has been a great investment.
One thing I think is valuable is that the mom has a marketable skill or background that can be used as needed to bring in extra money. I love being at home with the kids but am thankful to able to work alittle bit. The years I had babies that meant about 5 days (for the whole year) But still I was able to keep up my skills and increase my pay as time went on. So a future stay at home mom should be wise and consider developing that skill when she is single.
I think you can work a bit outsie the home and still be a "stay at home" mom.
I hesitate to use the term "God always provides" lightly.
Yes God provides but some families live under an enormous burden of stress living with just day to day necessities.
Are they surviving? I guess so. I am sure the stress can decrease their ability to spiritually nuture their kids. There are some families who do live frugally and wisely but still have great financial burdens.
And I know this is way out of topic but if God always provides with each new baby what are we to tell the moms in other countries whose babies are starving to death? Is He not providing for them? I guess we are just privileged to live in the land of plenty.
These comments have been both helpful and hard for me. I am a mom to 5 and both dh and I would like more, but we are crushed by debt. This is almost entirely student-loan debt, since neither of our families could send us even to the state schools, and in dh’s case his family did not support him even with a place to live. He is in night school getting a professional degree so that he has the option to make a lot more money, but of course has had to take out loans to do it. We have tried, hard, to make responsible choices all through our married life, driving cars more than 10 yrs old, thrifting, homeschooling, etc. And we have, unfortunately, sometimes given in and just spent a huge amount on a meal out. Recently we got a new couch (the cheapest new, but still new).
But it’s hard because I don’t know what is the best — to follow our desire, to be open to as many children as God in his goodness gives? Or to look ahead, and wonder how in the world we will feed everyone when they are teens, how will we afford health insurance? (They are on the state-sponsored medical plan right now.) And how will we meet the vastly larger student loan payments after dh graduates and moves into his new field?
many times I have wondered what I could do to earn money for us, but the time I have is so limited; the earnings would not be enough to justify the stress on our family life if I were to be gone regularly.
Is it wrong to just plough ahead, open to life, and say, "God will help us"? That’s what I want to do.
I wanted to share a few things we do in order to afford our life and family. Which, I should say, is not large–yet! We only have two kids right now but definitely want to have more! (Unfortunately, we didn’t realize we wanted to or were called to have a larger family until after our first…four years into our marriage and nearly 28 years old. So we’ll see what God has in store for us.)
Anyway, we have two savings accounts: one for emergencies that we don’t touch and one for what I call "Holdings". It’s basically the old coffee can savings plan. Each month I transfer a certain amount from checking into holdings before we can get our grubby little hands on it. Then I keep track of how much is "dog-eared" for certain categories. For example, right now some of my categories include Pets, Christmas, Insurance, License & Registration, Rummage Sales, Classes, Birthdays, Vacations, Home Maintenance, Dining Out, New Baby (not pregnant yet but planning ahead), Wish List….
When it’s time to pay the insurance bill or I want cash for a rummage sale, I can transfer/pull the money out knowing it won’t negatively affect anything else. It’s been a real life-saver! It’s not really creating more money but slowly helping prepare for goals you’d like to meet (and children you’d like to have).
Another idea is to cloth diaper. When I tell friends that I do this they are shocked. How ‘old fashioned’ or ‘gross’ they think. But cloth diapers are nothing like they used to be!!!! SO many options. I truly believe they’re cheaper in the long run, even after figuring in detergent, water usage, and energy costs from washer/dryer. The problem is the up-front costs can be scary (but hey, that’s why you’ve got money in a "coffee can" dedicated to it!). 🙂 They’re not only better for the environment but for the baby. Personally, I cringe at the thought of tree pulp and who knows what chemicals pressed up against my child’s skin 24/7 for 2 or more years of her life!
But don’t misunderstand, I’m not completely anti-disposables and my kids wear them occasionally. We use them for a longer outing, travelling, and most nights. I just wish more moms would at least consider cloth for part-time use; open their minds and do a little online research. Personally, I like All-in-Ones (AIO) and pocket diapers best. (SNAP-EZ is a fantastic diaper!!! My absolute favorite! She’s a work at home mom of 10!)
The great things about cloth are that you can reuse them over and over with multiple children and they’re CUTE! There are so many adorable prints! I know plenty of moms that will shell out big bucks for namebrand outfits and shoes that will be outgrown in months. Why, I wonder, wouldn’t they want to "dress up" their baby’s toosh, too?! 🙂 Especially in the summer when they can really show it off.
I haven’t been brave enough to get into the reusable "toilet paper" or feminine products yet but I’ll bet that’d save a lot of money, too.
My other suggestions are common sense: buying in bulk (after you crunch the numbers and determine if it really IS saving you money or not!), buying off-brands, and rummage sales.
Another idea is to stop buying expensive cleaning supplies. Baking soda and vinegar are cheap and clean wonderfully! Plus, they’re not harmful to work with.
Also, Menus4Moms is a free online meal planning service. She advocates freezer cooking or bulk cooking which is great once you get going. I imagine it would help large families immensely. When your meal is mapped out early you can buy when things are on sale AND use those coupons on top of it.
This last comment is probably not the best advice, but…use your credit card! LOL We put all purchases on Discover or another one that offers 5% at certain types of stores. We keep track of every charge and deduct it from our alloted budget. We’re able to pay it off in full every single month because we know we haven’t over spent. We rack up a lot of free money this way! ‘The card that pays you back’ is awesome!!
Dear anon mom,
God bless you and your family.
You raise up good questions that definitely should be part of the discernment process.
I think we should consider financial resources when planning our families especially if it means being able to provide basics such as food and health insurance. I don’t think this implies any lack of faith or thought that God won’t provide.
There is a wide range of thought within the Church about what responsible family planning means. Ultimately though only you and your husband can decide what God desires you to do.
May God give you peace and wisdom,
PM