Comments on: Your Turn: Being Open to Life http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/ Catholic mother and author Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:37:33 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Elaine http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-3/#comment-5288 Elaine Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:10:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5288 In response to Ian, and with respect to Danielle, here are some actual, verified statistics from peer-reviewed studies about the 2 most common modern methods of NFP. Successful use of any method of NFP is dependent upon: couple motivation, competent teaching, understanding and following of the instructions. Numbers in brackets correspond to the study references below. Sympto-Thermal Method (Serena, C.C.L.I., etc.) Percentages of pregnancies during the first year of : perfect use to avoid pregnancy : 0.5 % (1) – 2 % (2) typical use to avoid pregnancy : 3% (3) – 10.9 % (4) Ovulation Method (W.O.O.M.B., etc.) Percentages of pregnancies during the first year of : perfect use to avoid pregnancy : 1% (5) – 3 % (2) typical use to avoid pregnancy : 2.5 % (6) – 19.6 % (7) REFERENCES (1) RICE FJ, LANCTÔT CAL et al. The Effectiveness of the Sympto-thermal Method of Natural Family Planning : An International Study. Int. J. Fertil., 1981 ; 26, 3, 222-230. (2) TRUSSELL J, KOWAL D. The Essentials of Contraception. Chap. 9 in Contraceptive Technology by HATCHER J, TRUSSELL J et al. Ardent Media, New York 1998, p. 216. (3) FRANK-HERRMANN P, FREUNDL G et al. Natural Family Planning with and without Barrier Method Use in the Fertile Phase : Efficacy in Relation to Sexual Behavior – A German Prospective Long-Term Study. Advances in Contraception, 1997 ; 13, 2/3, 179-189. (4) WADE ME, McCARTHY P. A Randomized Prospective Study of the Use-Effectiveness of Two Methods of Natural Family Planning. Am. J. Obstet. Gynecol., 1981, 141, 4 : 368-376. (5) KLAUS H, GOEBEL JM et al. Use-effectiveness and Client Satisfaction in Six Centers Teaching the Billings Ovulation Method. Contraception, 1979 : 19, 613-629. (6) THAPA S, WONGA MV et al. Efficacy of Three Variations of Periodic Abstinence for Family Planning in Indonesia. Studies in Family Planning, 1990 ; 21, 6, 327-334. (7) WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION. A Prospective Multicentre Trial of the Ovulation Method of Natural Family Planning. II. The Effectiveness Fase. Fertility and Sterility, 1981 ; 36, 5, 591-598. In response to Ian, and with respect to Danielle, here are some actual, verified statistics from peer-reviewed studies about the 2 most common modern methods of NFP.

Successful use of any method of NFP is dependent upon: couple motivation, competent teaching, understanding and following of the instructions.

Numbers in brackets correspond to the study references below.

Sympto-Thermal Method (Serena, C.C.L.I., etc.)

Percentages of pregnancies during the first year of :
perfect use to avoid pregnancy : 0.5 % (1) – 2 % (2)
typical use to avoid pregnancy : 3% (3) – 10.9 % (4)

Ovulation Method (W.O.O.M.B., etc.)

Percentages of pregnancies during the first year of :
perfect use to avoid pregnancy : 1% (5) – 3 % (2)
typical use to avoid pregnancy : 2.5 % (6) – 19.6 % (7)

REFERENCES

(1) RICE FJ, LANCTÔT CAL et al. The Effectiveness of the Sympto-thermal Method of Natural Family Planning : An International Study. Int. J. Fertil., 1981 ; 26, 3, 222-230.

(2) TRUSSELL J, KOWAL D. The Essentials of Contraception. Chap. 9 in Contraceptive Technology by HATCHER J, TRUSSELL J et al. Ardent Media, New York 1998, p. 216.

(3) FRANK-HERRMANN P, FREUNDL G et al. Natural Family Planning with and without Barrier Method Use in the Fertile Phase : Efficacy in Relation to Sexual Behavior – A German Prospective Long-Term Study. Advances in Contraception, 1997 ; 13, 2/3, 179-189.

(4) WADE ME, McCARTHY P. A Randomized Prospective Study of the Use-Effectiveness of Two Methods of Natural Family Planning. Am. J. Obstet. Gynecol., 1981, 141, 4 : 368-376.

(5) KLAUS H, GOEBEL JM et al. Use-effectiveness and Client Satisfaction in Six Centers Teaching the Billings Ovulation Method. Contraception, 1979 : 19, 613-629.

(6) THAPA S, WONGA MV et al. Efficacy of Three Variations of Periodic Abstinence for Family Planning in Indonesia. Studies in Family Planning, 1990 ; 21, 6, 327-334.

(7) WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION. A Prospective Multicentre Trial of the Ovulation Method of Natural Family Planning. II. The Effectiveness Fase. Fertility and Sterility, 1981 ; 36, 5, 591-598.

]]> By: threegirls'mom http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-3/#comment-5287 threegirls'mom Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:49:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5287 Going back to the original reader's question. I do believe that yes, NFP can be very difficult, especially if you are inexperienced or not well trained when some sort of crazy cycles come your way. We learned NFP just before our second daughter was conceived. At that time, we realized that the only reason we had to delay pregnancy was to learn NFP and didn't feel that was a good enough reason. We had the basics down, but we were still very confused when we went back to NFP after her birth. It was made even more frustrating and confusing by the diagnosis and subsequent treatment for thyroid cancer, which threw my entire body and endocrine system into mayhem. Couple that with the endocrinologist who recommended I NEVER have any more children, since the cancer seemed to be made to grow quicker during the pregnancy and you had a young (newly Catholic) couple who was very fearful and confused, but also trusted in the Lord and the wisdom of Holy Mother Church. I am pretty sure that daughter number 3 was a complete gift from God, as I do not think I had ovulated at all between babies number 2 and 3. This made that a time of very difficult charting and lots of abstaining since I really wasn't sure what was going on. But, once pregnant, we knew that no matter what happened, God would be with us. I was still scared to death to tell my endocrinlogist about the pregnancy, however. But, even he has seen the grace of God in my life and I think has been touched by the witness God has allowed me to be. He as given me the go ahead to have more babies as long as I am healthy. I smile at that, since I know it will only be God who allows that. Through all of the ups and downs of all of this, we have struggled with NFP. It has not always been easy, especially for my husband. If he were less convinced that God is in control of our lives, it would be worse. But, I can honestly say, that our marriage is stronger for all the struggles and that we have grown closer than we thought possible through it all. I believe NFP has been instrumental in that. NFP requires you to face your fears on a monthly basis. Am I afraid that I will not be able to provide financially for my family? Am I afraid that I cannot be a good mother to the children I have now, never mind the possibility of future children? And what do we do with these fears? We can either wallow in them or we can give them over to God and beg Him for a big ol' heaping helping of His Grace. It frustrates me to no end when my 8 year old refuses to let me help her with something that I know is too hard for her. How must God feel when we do the same to him? The fact of the matter is that without God we wouldn't be able to do any of it. He is the one who makes it all possible. NFP simply allows us to use our resources to discover His will for our marriages and our lives. It comes down to a relationship with God and accepting His will in our lives whether we choose to practice NFP or "let nature take it's course". The great thing about NFP is that it allows for "Father (in Heaven) knows best." If you practice NFP strictly by every rule you know and check and check and you still end up pregnant then you have to realize that that baby was willed by God and will be a very special person. I was very scared to find myself pregnant for a third time after all I had been through, but I can honestly say that that child has changed both my husband and my self for the better in countless ways. I pray that those of you who struggle with NFP will find God's grace and peace in your lives. God Bless! Going back to the original reader’s question. I do believe that yes, NFP can be very difficult, especially if you are inexperienced or not well trained when some sort of crazy cycles come your way. We learned NFP just before our second daughter was conceived. At that time, we realized that the only reason we had to delay pregnancy was to learn NFP and didn’t feel that was a good enough reason. We had the basics down, but we were still very confused when we went back to NFP after her birth. It was made even more frustrating and confusing by the diagnosis and subsequent treatment for thyroid cancer, which threw my entire body and endocrine system into mayhem. Couple that with the endocrinologist who recommended I NEVER have any more children, since the cancer seemed to be made to grow quicker during the pregnancy and you had a young (newly Catholic) couple who was very fearful and confused, but also trusted in the Lord and the wisdom of Holy Mother Church. I am pretty sure that daughter number 3 was a complete gift from God, as I do not think I had ovulated at all between babies number 2 and 3. This made that a time of very difficult charting and lots of abstaining since I really wasn’t sure what was going on. But, once pregnant, we knew that no matter what happened, God would be with us. I was still scared to death to tell my endocrinlogist about the pregnancy, however. But, even he has seen the grace of God in my life and I think has been touched by the witness God has allowed me to be. He as given me the go ahead to have more babies as long as I am healthy. I smile at that, since I know it will only be God who allows that. Through all of the ups and downs of all of this, we have struggled with NFP. It has not always been easy, especially for my husband. If he were less convinced that God is in control of our lives, it would be worse. But, I can honestly say, that our marriage is stronger for all the struggles and that we have grown closer than we thought possible through it all. I believe NFP has been instrumental in that. NFP requires you to face your fears on a monthly basis. Am I afraid that I will not be able to provide financially for my family? Am I afraid that I cannot be a good mother to the children I have now, never mind the possibility of future children? And what do we do with these fears? We can either wallow in them or we can give them over to God and beg Him for a big ol’ heaping helping of His Grace. It frustrates me to no end when my 8 year old refuses to let me help her with something that I know is too hard for her. How must God feel when we do the same to him? The fact of the matter is that without God we wouldn’t be able to do any of it. He is the one who makes it all possible. NFP simply allows us to use our resources to discover His will for our marriages and our lives. It comes down to a relationship with God and accepting His will in our lives whether we choose to practice NFP or "let nature take it’s course". The great thing about NFP is that it allows for "Father (in Heaven) knows best." If you practice NFP strictly by every rule you know and check and check and you still end up pregnant then you have to realize that that baby was willed by God and will be a very special person. I was very scared to find myself pregnant for a third time after all I had been through, but I can honestly say that that child has changed both my husband and my self for the better in countless ways. I pray that those of you who struggle with NFP will find God’s grace and peace in your lives. God Bless!

]]> By: Anonymous2 http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-3/#comment-5286 Anonymous2 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:21:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5286 Very nice words Marie. Thanks for the good insights. Very nice words Marie. Thanks for the good insights.

]]> By: Marie M http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5285 Marie M Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:11:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5285 Dear Anon2, my brother in Christ, please be aware that some of your comments could very easily be misunderstood: Your words: "NFP yuck" "How many of you would use contraception if the Church allowed it?" Do you not realize that the practice of NFP is meant to strengthen your marriage so that you each give each other the gift of your selves with out the fear of being treated as an object? If I use contraception, I am inviting my husband to use me as a neutered object of his sexual desire. Women are deceived into thinking that contraception liberates them, but in fact, it is just the opposite. Your words: "How about the physical shape of the woman? Is she simply supposed to succumb to the fact that she is going to be fat after having 6 plus kids? Doesn’t that mess with the psychology?" "My wife is hot, smokin hot. I am mature enought to say hot." John Paul II's words: "It is possible for a husband to look lustfully at his own wife, and so commit adultery with her in his heart. . . (This) lust reduces the riches of the deep attrativeness of masculinity and femininity, ot mere satisfaction of the sexual need of the body. . . In this way the mutual "for" is distorted, losing its character of communion of persons in favor of the utilitarian function. A man who looks in this way, uses the woman to satisfy his own instinct. Although he does not do so with an exterior act, he has already assumed this attitude deep down, inwardly deciding in this way with regard to a given woman. This is what adultery committed in the heart consists of. Man can commit this adultery in the heart also with regard to his own wife, if he treats her only as an object to satisfy instinct." Anon2, I do not accuse you of the above, but it is well for every husband and wife to consider the Pope's words carefully. Think of how we can change the world, if we live up to the high ideal that JPII presents in his Theology of the Body. See Christopher West!! Does it mess with her psychology that you expect your wife to be "Barbie"? Thank God for heroic husbands who come home every day and kiss their wives and tell them they are beautiful (EVEN IF they are looking pretty tired and harried from a day of taking care of the kids, cleaning, and cooking and EVEN IF their shape has long ago filled out as a result of childbearing!) THe words to Marie Bellet's song "One Heroic Moment" come to mind: One heroic moment in an ordinary day Minute after minute, little steps along the way He knows HE MUST DENY HIMSELF FOR THE MAN HE NEEDS TO BE And each heroic moment SLOWLY SETS HIM FREE!!!! Your words: "When you practice NFP all it is is holy and stressful" Again, NFP, when seen in the light of truth about the human body, is beautiful. I quote a paraphrase of JPII from the book, "Splendor of Love" by Fr. Walter Schu, LC: "The eminently positive function of purity can be seen in St. Paul's exhortation to control our own body "in holiness and honor." Abstention and self control are closely connected and dependent on each other. Self-mastery enables us to attain our dignity as persons. Only when a person has achieved self-mastery can he fulfill the law of the gift inscribed in his nature and give himself away out of love." And a direct quote from JPII: "The satisfaction of the passions is one thing, and the joy that man finds in mastering himself more fully is another thing. In this way he can also become more fully a real gift for another person." The very act of living through the times of abstention is strengthening you to become a gift for your wife! This can ONLY HAPPEN IF WE LEARN TO CONTROL OURSELVES! NFP gives us the tools to make this happen! One last quote from "Splendor of Love": "As our material body weakens, hastening us toward death (AS SO MANY OF US WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD CHILDREN CAN IDENTIFY WITH!), it enables our spirit to grow in beauty and virtue through ever deeper, more purified acts of self-giving love. The physical spending of our present body, like a candle that consumes itself, enriches the life of our soul." May God give us all the capacity to love our spouses with that selfless, life-giving love that our belated Holy Father set as an ideal for all married couples! And may we be a witness to the world of the joy that it brings to our marriages and of the reflection our marriages are of the communion of persons that exist in the Trinity! Dear Anon2, my brother in Christ, please be aware that some of your comments could very easily be misunderstood:

Your words: "NFP yuck" "How many of you would use contraception if the Church allowed it?"

Do you not realize that the practice of NFP is meant to strengthen your marriage so that you each give each other the gift of your selves with out the fear of being treated as an object? If I use contraception, I am inviting my husband to use me as a neutered object of his sexual desire. Women are deceived into thinking that contraception liberates them, but in fact, it is just the opposite.

Your words: "How about the physical shape of the woman? Is she simply supposed to succumb to the fact that she is going to be fat after having 6 plus kids? Doesn’t that mess with the psychology?" "My wife is hot, smokin hot. I am mature enought to say hot."

John Paul II’s words: "It is possible for a husband to look lustfully at his own wife, and so commit adultery with her in his heart. . . (This) lust reduces the riches of the deep attrativeness of masculinity and femininity, ot mere satisfaction of the sexual need of the body. . . In this way the mutual "for" is distorted, losing its character of communion of persons in favor of the utilitarian function. A man who looks in this way, uses the woman to satisfy his own instinct. Although he does not do so with an exterior act, he has already assumed this attitude deep down, inwardly deciding in this way with regard to a given woman. This is what adultery committed in the heart consists of. Man can commit this adultery in the heart also with regard to his own wife, if he treats her only as an object to satisfy instinct."

Anon2, I do not accuse you of the above, but it is well for every husband and wife to consider the Pope’s words carefully. Think of how we can change the world, if we live up to the high ideal that JPII presents in his Theology of the Body. See Christopher West!!

Does it mess with her psychology that you expect your wife to be "Barbie"? Thank God for heroic husbands who come home every day and kiss their wives and tell them they are beautiful (EVEN IF they are looking pretty tired and harried from a day of taking care of the kids, cleaning, and cooking and EVEN IF their shape has long ago filled out as a result of childbearing!) THe words to Marie Bellet’s song "One Heroic Moment" come to mind:

One heroic moment in an
ordinary day
Minute after minute, little steps
along the way
He knows HE MUST DENY HIMSELF FOR
THE MAN HE NEEDS TO BE
And each heroic moment SLOWLY
SETS HIM FREE!!!!

Your words: "When you practice NFP all it is is holy and stressful"

Again, NFP, when seen in the light of truth about the human body, is beautiful. I quote a paraphrase of JPII from the book, "Splendor of Love" by Fr. Walter Schu, LC:

"The eminently positive function of purity can be seen in St. Paul’s exhortation to control our own body "in holiness and honor." Abstention and self control are closely connected and dependent on each other. Self-mastery enables us to attain our dignity as persons. Only when a person has achieved self-mastery can he fulfill the law of the gift inscribed in his nature and give himself away out of love."

And a direct quote from JPII: "The satisfaction of the passions is one thing, and the joy that man finds in mastering himself more fully is another thing. In this way he can also become more fully a real gift for another person."

The very act of living through the times of abstention is strengthening you to become a gift for your wife! This can ONLY HAPPEN IF WE LEARN TO CONTROL OURSELVES! NFP gives us the tools to make this happen!

One last quote from "Splendor of Love":

"As our material body weakens, hastening us toward death (AS SO MANY OF US WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD CHILDREN CAN IDENTIFY WITH!), it enables our spirit to grow in beauty and virtue through ever deeper, more purified acts of self-giving love. The physical spending of our present body, like a candle that consumes itself, enriches the life of our soul."

May God give us all the capacity to love our spouses with that selfless, life-giving love that our belated Holy Father set as an ideal for all married couples! And may we be a witness to the world of the joy that it brings to our marriages and of the reflection our marriages are of the communion of persons that exist in the Trinity!

]]> By: Anonymous2 http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5284 Anonymous2 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:12:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5284 Teresa, my wife is not hot she in Smokin Hot! If it is sexual in nature, (which I don't believe) she is my wife and we are sexual, and we aren't teenagers. I think we are mature enough to say hot. Teresa, my wife is not hot she in Smokin Hot! If it is sexual in nature, (which I don’t believe) she is my wife and we are sexual, and we aren’t teenagers. I think we are mature enough to say hot.

]]> By: Anonymous2 http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5283 Anonymous2 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:08:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5283 Thanks Suz, By the way a very important comment to make. My wife dresses to kill, she is in great shape and not overweight, and our s.. life is good (when we are safe). We are simply STRESSED!! I was bringing up those comments about many woman that I have seen and some that I know. Thanks Suz,

By the way a very important comment to make. My wife dresses to kill, she is in great shape and not overweight, and our s.. life is good (when we are safe). We are simply STRESSED!! I was bringing up those comments about many woman that I have seen and some that I know.

]]> By: Teresa http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5282 Teresa Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:06:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5282 I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, Anon2 about how you view your wife. I am sure you are a loving husband and you sound concerned about her welfare. Maybe I misread you when you used the term "hot" to describe her. In my humble opinion, the word "hot" is derogatory towards women and men alike when used to describe their appearance or demeanor. It is a word that is sexual in the way it is used today, and it implies that the person it is describing is simply an object of desire. Though it is a popular teen phrase, we don't allow our teens to use that word to describe someone. Despite your latest post, your previous posts suggested that you want a trophy or eye candy on your arm to show off to your buddies. Maybe you were being flippant in that remark; I hope so. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, Anon2 about how you view your wife. I am sure you are a loving husband and you sound concerned about her welfare. Maybe I misread you when you used the term "hot" to describe her. In my humble opinion, the word "hot" is derogatory towards women and men alike when used to describe their appearance or demeanor. It is a word that is sexual in the way it is used today, and it implies that the person it is describing is simply an object of desire. Though it is a popular teen phrase, we don’t allow our teens to use that word to describe someone. Despite your latest post, your previous posts suggested that you want a trophy or eye candy on your arm to show off to your buddies. Maybe you were being flippant in that remark; I hope so.

]]> By: Suzanne R http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5281 Suzanne R Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:02:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5281 Anon2, I am sorry if my comment offended you. I just thought Mark did a great job of presenting the other side--as a man who practices NFP and doesn't think it is "yuck"!. I did think you needed to be "put in your place" because of what came across as a very selfish attitude in your post. You even invited others to trash your comments. It did not seem like you came here looking for inspiration. It seemed like you just wanted to complain about not being able to use contraception, about how bad NFP is, how bad your sex life is, your wife's weight, her clothes, etc... Maybe I read it wrong. If what's really bothering you is that you and your wife are having problems with reading her cycles, then there is help out there. Of course you don't have to abstain for 12 months! Try learning a different method, contact someone who is more knowledgable, take a refresher class, buy a fertility monitor, etc. If you are having financial problems and your wife is overwhelmed, then no one would blame you for trying to postpone a pregnancy now. NFP does not exist to make your life miserable. God in His mercy has given it to us to help us. So instead of just assuming that it doesn't work, go get the information you need to MAKE it work, because all the studies done on it show that it REALLY DOES, if you know how to do it right. I do hope this helps. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I pray that you and your wife find a solution. God bless. Anon2,
I am sorry if my comment offended you. I just thought Mark did a great job of presenting the other side–as a man who practices NFP and doesn’t think it is "yuck"!. I did think you needed to be "put in your place" because of what came across as a very selfish attitude in your post. You even invited others to trash your comments. It did not seem like you came here looking for inspiration. It seemed like you just wanted to complain about not being able to use contraception, about how bad NFP is, how bad your sex life is, your wife’s weight, her clothes, etc…
Maybe I read it wrong. If what’s really bothering you is that you and your wife are having problems with reading her cycles, then there is help out there. Of course you don’t have to abstain for 12 months! Try learning a different method, contact someone who is more knowledgable, take a refresher class, buy a fertility monitor, etc. If you are having financial problems and your wife is overwhelmed, then no one would blame you for trying to postpone a pregnancy now. NFP does not exist to make your life miserable. God in His mercy has given it to us to help us. So instead of just assuming that it doesn’t work, go get the information you need to MAKE it work, because all the studies done on it show that it REALLY DOES, if you know how to do it right. I do hope this helps. I’m not here to argue with anyone. I pray that you and your wife find a solution. God bless.

]]> By: Anonymous2 http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5280 Anonymous2 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:05:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5280 WOW!!!! You guys have totally not understood my post. With comments like WAY TO GO MARK it sounds as if I was put in my place. EASY folks. I came here for inspiration not some you are a sinner scolding! I love my wife and THANK GOD for her daily, even if she were to gain 50 pounds. I love my wife and think she is beautiful even when she wears sweats and a baggy t-shirt. As I mentioned earlier my wife has so many great aspects about her that her beauty is simply one of them. I have already claimed that if I knew when it was safe (avoid pregnancy) using NFP I would love NFP. I understand the sacrifices of NFP regarding self-control etc.. and am fine with that. What I am not fine with is that my wife just had baby number 4 after 5 1/2 years of marriage and she needs a break! I believe and trust in GOD. So what do we do regardiing sex when the cycles are crazy? This is a common problem with NFP? Does my wife and I simply have to abstain for 12 months when she is done nursing the baby, for we all know that pregnancy is possible during the nursing time. Mark, I have a great Catholic circle of 8-10 young couples and us guys all have the same problem with NFP. We are open to life, have sexual self-control but are financially strapped and are wives simply need a break. I love my wife so much I worry everyday if she is doing ok. We pray together everynight and find strength in God but that doesn't mean that we still don't suffer. You can't take away feelings unless you are some robot. Regarding the woman at work dressed to kill you lump all these woman as sinners and "killing the soul" WOW! I think Christ said something like "if you are without sin cast the first stone" You must not work in corporate America for they have dress codes that don't allow low cut blouses or short skirts. I think it is great that a woman wants to look nice for those she deals with. How can you disagree with that! WOW!!!! You guys have totally not understood my post. With comments like WAY TO GO MARK it sounds as if I was put in my place. EASY folks. I came here for inspiration not some you are a sinner scolding!

I love my wife and THANK GOD for her daily, even if she were to gain 50 pounds. I love my wife and think she is beautiful even when she wears sweats and a baggy t-shirt. As I mentioned earlier my wife has so many great aspects about her that her beauty is simply one of them. I have already claimed that if I knew when it was safe (avoid pregnancy) using NFP I would love NFP. I understand the sacrifices of NFP regarding self-control etc.. and am fine with that. What I am not fine with is that my wife just had baby number 4 after 5 1/2 years of marriage and she needs a break! I believe and trust in GOD. So what do we do regardiing sex when the cycles are crazy? This is a common problem with NFP? Does my wife and I simply have to abstain for 12 months when she is done nursing the baby, for we all know that pregnancy is possible during the nursing time.

Mark, I have a great Catholic circle of 8-10 young couples and us guys all have the same problem with NFP. We are open to life, have sexual self-control but are financially strapped and are wives simply need a break. I love my wife so much I worry everyday if she is doing ok. We pray together everynight and find strength in God but that doesn’t mean that we still don’t suffer. You can’t take away feelings unless you are some robot.

Regarding the woman at work dressed to kill you lump all these woman as sinners and "killing the soul" WOW! I think Christ said something like "if you are without sin cast the first stone" You must not work in corporate America for they have dress codes that don’t allow low cut blouses or short skirts. I think it is great that a woman wants to look nice for those she deals with. How can you disagree with that!

]]> By: Suzanne R http://daniellebean.com/2006/06/26/your-turn-being-open-to-life/comment-page-2/#comment-5279 Suzanne R Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:49:00 +0000 http://69.89.25.175/~danielm5/?p=3095#comment-5279 Way to go, Markwings97! You said it better than any of us women could. I would like to add this, to Anon2, and any other men who feel as he does: if you had to experience the physical changes brought on by pregnancy--the nausea, aches, pains, discomfort, swelling, weight gain, etc, etc,---not even to mention the pain of childbirth!---, you would get down on your knees and THANK your wife for making such sacrifices to bring your precious children into the world. And I don't think you would be so concerned about her being a bit overweight, or about how she dresses. Also, for NFP to work the way it's supposed to, it has to be a team effort. If all you want is for your wife to tell you when it's "OK" and when it's not, you are missing the point. YOU are supposed to be as informed and involved in it as she is; you are supposed to be making it easier for her; you are supposed to make those fertile times a time of "second courtship" where you are affectionate in different ways and show her how much she means to you. Then when it is "OK" to come together, she will appreciate all your efforts and your time of intimacy will be all it's supposed to be. Way to go, Markwings97! You said it better than any of us women could.
I would like to add this, to Anon2, and any other men who feel as he does: if you had to experience the physical changes brought on by pregnancy–the nausea, aches, pains, discomfort, swelling, weight gain, etc, etc,—not even to mention the pain of childbirth!—, you would get down on your knees and THANK your wife for making such sacrifices to bring your precious children into the world. And I don’t think you would be so concerned about her being a bit overweight, or about how she dresses.
Also, for NFP to work the way it’s supposed to, it has to be a team effort. If all you want is for your wife to tell you when it’s "OK" and when it’s not, you are missing the point. YOU are supposed to be as informed and involved in it as she is; you are supposed to be making it easier for her; you are supposed to make those fertile times a time of "second courtship" where you are affectionate in different ways and show her how much she means to you. Then when it is "OK" to come together, she will appreciate all your efforts and your time of intimacy will be all it’s supposed to be.

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