Jun 26 2006
Your Turn: Being Open to Life
A reader writes:
It would be nice to know that there are others out there who struggle with the conflict of truly being open to life and loving children and wanting a big family, but at the same time being overcome by the fear of the realities of a really big family and not knowing how to “slow down.” Because NFP isn’t as easy as everyone says it is and depending on one’s fertility signs, it doesn’t really always work. At least not for me.
Hmmmm, I do not want to get bogged down in the details of whether or not NFP “really works” here other than to mention that NFP methods test out at 98 point whatever percent effective, but what really counts for most people is “user effectiveness” which is a lower number. The simple fact is that using NFP to space or prevent pregnancy, particularly for some people, is not quite as simple as popping a pill. And that’s a good thing. Because we ought not to be using it the way some people pop a pill.
I think that with NFP, there wind up being many “accidental” pregnancies that are not truly “accidents” at all. Couples often know when they are bending or breaking particular rules or not paying close enough attention to fertility symptoms and lo and behold—a pregnancy results!
This might lead to a great deal of frustration with NFP, but as I said, I think it is a good thing. NFP is not fun. This fact likely encourages many couples to be more generous in planning their families than they would otherwise be. The seriousness with which most couples learn and use NFP is usually directly proportional to the seriousness of their reasons for using it. Personally speaking, if conception did not come easily for us and my husband and I had to actively plan every single pregnancy in the way people using artificial birth control do, we might have 3 or 4 children by now. We surely wouldn’t be expecting our eighth. We would be missing out and wouldn’t even know it.
All of which brings us to the heart of the emailer’s struggle. It can be hard—so very hard—to accept God’s plan for our families in place of our own. It is downright scary sometimes to turn something as powerful and potentially life-changing as our fertility over to God. And this works both ways. I know women struggling with infertility who want desperately to conceive and are unable to. These women too experience frustration, disillusionment, and fear in accepting God’s will for themselves and their families.
But our bodies and our fertility do belong to God. Sometimes the hardest words in the world to pray are “Thy will be done.” I know that when I pray it, my mind sometimes races through all the possibilities of what “God’s will” might be and I am tempted to add, “Oh, except for that! Thy will be done as long as it isn’t that!” Something to work on.
I don’t have any particular questions to pose on this topic, but there is a lot to think about here and I am pretty sure you all will have something to share. Thoughts?
NFP IS Family Planning and can be just as sinful as artificial means of contraception if not used for the most serious of reasons. We must rely more on God’s Will for us in sending His gifts and HIS timing, than on ourselves. We must also trust in His Divine Providence to provide us with the means to take care of these "gifts". We also cannot always trust what some doctors tell us – one told me, after our second child, that I should never have any more children because it was too dangerous, since I hemorhagged badly after delivery and then developed phlebitis. I was only 21 years old! Again, after our 6th child, I was in the hospital for over 20 days with phlebitis in both legs – and the doctor told me we should really consider not having any more children. However, tests had proven I was one of 15% of the world’s women who ovulated several times a month- and we were Catholic – and we knew that NFP would not work for us – so we prayed a lot for God’s help. He Blessed us with 13 children, after 15 pregnancies in 24 years. It was very hard, to say the least, as my husband was a carpenter & I could not work outside the home, obviously. There were times when we didn’t know where our next meal would come from – literally – but someone would come to our door with a few pizzas or a huge pot of soup or money which they owed my husband for a long time and which we had forgotten about. So, God took such good care of us – He can never be outdone in generosity if we are generous with Him. I cannot stress enough to just rely on God – He knows what is best for you and the right number of children for your family. He will never abandon you. Do not give in to the anti-life mentality or the "limited" number of children mentality which pervades our society and even our church. You will never be sorry for trusting in the Lord and Giver of Life!
When/if I marry, I will be unable to concieve because I have Turners’ syndrome (I don’t have ovaries). I don’t think people appreciate what a gift it is to be able to have a child. I am one of seven children (my oldest brother died before I was born though and two sibling’s are my father’s from another relationship). When my older sister was little she asked my mom where babies come from, Mom told her that when a mommy and a daddy love each other God sends them a child. My sister replied: "He really let you have it!"
I have a friend with three children who was using NFP. She "accidentally on purpose" forgot to keep up with the calendar when she concieved her third. Her children are all beautiful! I pray often for families, especially those who are struggling to stay together.
I come from a family of nine-my Mother could not work outside the home. My last brother was a premie as a result of my Mother’s nearly deadly sickness-Spinal Meningitis. The Doctor’s said if she lived, we would be lucky if she knew us in a year! And she knew all of us as soon as she came out of a coma-one that lasted over a week-her fever had been so bad-they put her on a bed of ice! She heard my Dad saying that we needed her while she was in the coma! So many Parishes full of people were praying for her. My youngest Brother is in heaven because he was born too early to breathe on his own in those days.
In July my Mother will be 80! My Father was a hard working Plasterer and foreman. Trust in God, Ladies: He will never let you down.
I struggle with my own gift of fertility. I am an only child adopted by parents who were never able to conceive their own child, so the plight of infertility is always with me.
I have a wonderful spiritual guide, and know I should trust. This is the only area I just am not sure about her advise. She states that I have reason to not have more children now within Church guidelines due to the “mental health of the mother”. (I am a Homeschooling mother of seven and do the office work for our family business.)
In prayer I really seem to hear God saying that my fertility was given to us by Him and given back to Him by spiritually by me. My struggles with “keeping up” are really my struggles with my root sin of Pride and trying to do it all myself. My cross may be coping with my selfishness while giving love to a large family. My rooting out the root sin of Pride may be my needing to ask for help from those God has placed in my path and those He chooses to send that I may not even know yet.
To hear the comments of women and men who really wanted larger families, but the other spouse stopped pregnancies either through sterilization or radical use of NFP is really sad…… I am one cycle back into my fertility after baby seven…….. Lord, could you just send a burning bush or a talking cloud to tell us where to go from here? I have a lot of years of fertility…. I think…. ahead of me yet!
I must agree with the above comment that we must trust in God’s ability to provide for the very lives he blesses us with. We have 12 and are prayerfully considering if we are called to have one more. I am 44 and we are running our own business with no health insurance so being open to life will indeed call for us to trust in God’s providence. (BTW I too was told after my third not to have more as it was most probable that no other baby I conceived would survive… we decided to leave that decision in God’s hands – much to our delight of receiving 9 more blessings, mind we have 6 in heaven as well!!!)
Yet – there are serious reasons for sometimes not being open to life. I had a friend whom after 4 children honestly did not think she could cope with more. She suffered from depression and so she really did have good reason to stop at four. Another friend who suffered from a serious illness that worsened after each pregnancy decided with her husdand after six she should not have more children.
So I have learned not to ‘judge’ why others might have limited the size of their family. A parish is different though – it is not likely that a parish that averages 2.3 kids for over 90% of the parish ALL had serious and grave reasons to limit their families or that for some bizarre reason 90% of the parish were infertile… When you see that type of statistics in a parish – it is highly probably that many are birth controlling themselves out of existence – but we do NOT know who is doing this and who is praying for a third baby. We must love each family regardless and not judge. (Something I often did – which is why I am so adament about it!)
Blessings to you all!
Christi mum2twelve
Hi everyone… I have recently discovered Danielle’s wonderful website…
We have just had our fourth baby and prior to her birth I really wondered how I would cope… I think the fourth child enters you into the criteria of a "large" family – well, the beginning of a large family!
Since Michaela’s birth in January and despite numerous medical complications, I find myself earnestly hoping and praying for more children! I can see the abundant blessings with my older children of having a little one to love, care for and sacrifice for…
I think one of the problems of small families (I was one of only two children) is that as we grow, we become more selfish as we don’t have little ones to help out with. On the contrary, my older ones will be well educated in what the sacrificial love of parenting little ones is all about and in turn, my youngest ones will learn from their siblings as they eventually marry and start their own families… Unless of course, they all enter religious life!!!
With regard to NFP… I feel called to dismiss it for now, although whilst breastfeeding I never ovulate and need to lose a few kilos to begin ovulating again once b/f stops. NFP is a wonderful tool, but I do agree with Danielle in that it can be misused. I remind myself that God will never send more than we can cope with and that children are the jewels in our crown.
Sorry to ramble! May God bless us all with the grace to accept His will in our lives, as difficult as it may be at times.
Karen… in Australia!
Whoops – guess I should have referred to the comment of trusting God to provide as being in the first comment! Sorry.
Blessings again
Christi
PS I too have been advised for "mother’s mental health" not to have more… ultimantly we must look to the Lord for guidance. Sometimes that comes from both parents being of the same mind. At this time both my husband and I want another baby but we are both concerned for my health so… a little more prayer and perhaps a few less calories are needed before we make a decision!
We are not Catholic, but started using NFP last fall because the artificial birth control was making me horribly depressed. Then the more I read about the morality behind NFP, I realized that contraception is immoral, and that we did not have serious reasons to avoid pregnancy. We are now expecting our first child in December. I think God blessed the right action we took by first giving us the understanding of WHY it was the right action, and then by giving us the desire to have children, and then finally allowing us to conceive our first child.
It seems to me that we just need to do a better job of educating the public about how effective NFP is, and WHY contraception is wrong. We need a massive public-education campaign, ideally without the "stigma" of it being a Catholic-only thing. And of course lots of prayer.
I look at women with large families as being very blessed. My mother had a difficult time getting pregnant and her first baby was stillborn. She was told she would never have children; my brother was born nine years later and I was born four years later.
I married at 31 and, when I didn’t get pregnant with a few years, I thought I was taking after my mother and to just wait. To make a long story short, my husband and I adopted two children after twenty years of marriage. There were times when I was ready to give up on adoption, but kept praying. I became a mother of two children at 51 years of age; my son is almost 6 and my daughter is 4. People tell me how lucky and blessed our children are have us. We feel we are so blessed to have our children – the answer to our prayers!
One thing I will never know is what it is like to be pregnant and to feel life moving within me. There are times I look at a pregnant woman and feel envious. Those are the times I think about my children and thank God for what He has given me.
We are expecting our third child in early December after only nearly 4 years of marriage. We had hoped, or "thought" that we would like to have a bit more of a space than 20 months between the 2nd and 3rd but obviously, God had other plans and we were actively using NFP. It was just one of those crazy extra-long cycles, which is not regular for me. So, I think God had/has His way of "helping" us be open to life, even if it seems difficult or isn’t the way that we thought it would be.
Hmmm… I think NFP signs must be easier for some people to read than others, and I wish I had the answer to that.
I would like to say that there can be valid reasons to postpone pregnancy; for some couples, those postponements turn out to mean no more children. While we are all called to be open to life, we are also called to care for the lives we have already been open to.
I have known couples who would love to have more children, but who only have 2, because each month they have discerned in prayer that the Lord was not calling them to have more, and the serious problems that were preventing them were still there. My husband and I at one time had to postpone more children for 4 years, not by our choice, due to various issues, including my mental health. When your spiritual guide and 2 priests whom you know & trust counsel you that this is not a good time to conceive, you really need to listen (this was our case.) When you can’t discern God’s will on your own, He will send you someone who can help. Thank God for those people!!
If you ever read anything by Greg Popcak (who is a Catholic therapist), that can be helpful with this (he has a webblog). Also helpful is Janet Smith (who last I checked was a philosophy professor at Ave Maria.)
We have used NFP for 8 years now. First time, perfect. Second time we tried for almost 2 years and then 15 months after him came #3. He was no accident. We just knew we wanted another baby and it had taken us so long to conceive the second time we figured we’d be trying for a long time again.
What can I say? God has a terrific sense of humor. I was nervous about taking the pregnancy test because I had a 6 month old at the time. I was scared I couldn’t handle another one so soon, as #2 was a challenging baby.
When I finally got the guts to take the test, all I could do was laugh. How could I not rejoice at the gift I had been given? I know so many people who are unable to conceive that I just couldn’t be sad or upset.
I think it’s one of God’s last true holds on us. It’s the one area that He can still say, "You know what? I’m the one in charge here and, believe it or not, I know better than you!"
My husband and I used Natural Family Planning. We started with just the Basil temperature, because that was all we knew about. But then used the sympto-thermal method for several years before relaxing to just using the vaginal discharge/fluid consistancy. NFP works BOTH ways: you also know when you ARE most likely to conceive. It worked for us, I got pregnant the first month each time we were trying for another baby. Only, with the planning/timing we ended up with boys each time!
Breastfeeding can be a very natural, God designed, way to space babies….for some people. Two year spacing is the norm with completly breastfed babies. Ha! My period returned and I was fertle within two to three months of delivery!
NFP is great because the rule is fertility and the exception is infertility. If you don’t want to have babies, then you have to be proactive about it. The pill means that the rule is infertility. If you don’t want to have babies, then you don’t have to change anything. Just keep taking pills! To have a baby you actually have to make a conscious decision and change your life style. But the couple using NFP are naturally inclined to have children, as indeed God intended.
Thought I’d add another Aussie comment.
Well, I grew up in a very conservative Catholic family/background and never considered anything but NFP. In fact, when we first married, we were actually more providentialists than anything, just figuring we would let God decide for us. However, after 10 pregnancies in 10 years (several miscarriages in there)—despite having babies on the breast, struggles with serious depression and how to cope when you really don’t enjoy motherhood one iota and had truly believed that God would instill you with some of that motherly instinct once you had children of your own, only to discover otherwise, a serious chronic disease at least in part due to the very real physical/psychological stresses on the body/mind, and difficulties with every form of NFP out there (about 5 pregnancies in, we decided providentialism obviously wasn’t the best thing for our family *g*), I have learned not to be judgmental of people who have chosen to limit family size and to spend more of my energy trying to raise my own children in the best way I know how and less on worrying about the family-planning decisions of others.
I know a lot of couples who practice either providentialism or NFP, to varying degrees of success, and I have seen a lot of couples who are VERY over-extended as a result (many of those marriages aren’t that hot as a result of the stressors, either, I might add). There is one family in particular that I seriously worry about and struggle with the fact that there might be real emotional abuse happening to the children and worry about the psychological stability of the mother. Remember Andrea Yates.
Yes, our bodies and fertility belong to God, just like EVERYTHING we have belongs to Him, but that doesn’t mean we should just sit in a closet and let everything just happen in our lives, helter-skelter, with no thought to what is best for our families. It’s one thing to be a providentialist knowing that you can handle it all without having a mental breakdown, but when God sends you very clear signs that having 10,12,15 kids probably isn’t the best thing for your family, I do believe that He expects us to pay attention to those signs.
Please don’t think I am judging those families who have made the decision to have as many children as God so chooses to send them biologically. I’m not—if you have the physical and emotional/psychological capabilities to do that and be a good parent to all those children, more power to you! I’m in awe of you and even envious of you in some ways! But to assume that everyone has been called by God to that same vocation (because having a very large family IS a vocation of its own!) has never made much sense to me. And many of the situations I have seen with my own eyes bear that reality out, and unfortunately, it’s often the children who end up suffering the consequences.
My advice: pray for God to reveal His Will for your life to you, take advantage of the sacraments and the graces they provide, and He won’t let you down. NFP can be a real gift from God for couples who have real reasons to plan their families.
When I had my first child I used NFP, I remember my husband asking me if it were safe and responding I don’t think so. His next question was Do you care? and my response was NO! GOD was the decision maker here not us. Our son, is HIS precious gift to us and HE knew exactly what day HE wanted him to be conceived. #2 came 13 months later, there was no NFP involved and I had two complete cycles in the beginning. Life was felt before the 2nd cycle was missed. GOD’s hand at work again. Our last son came 5 1/2 and 4 1/2 years respectively of his older brothers. Again, GOD had the plan. The birth was perfect and all 3 boys were born naturally and without any health problems. A grace I truly thank GOD for everyday, even now 27, 26, and 21 years later. Following the delivery there were complications. The placenta would not separate from the uterus wall. I was hemoraging to death. GOD interceded again. HE gave me a OB/GYN that had observed a uterus only hysterectomy during his med school. At 25 1/2 I could no longer have children, but HE graced me with 3 and my life so that I would be the mother who raised them. They are my most precious gifts from him along with the gift of my husband.
Worth sharing: When I became pregnant with the 3rd child everyone in my extended family suggested I abort because of the age spread and the fact that my second would be starting kindergarten in the fall and my life would be so much easier. (An option never even considered an option in my mind.) I went out for dinner one night with my husband for chinese. This was the contents of my fortune cookie: "It is better to save one life then to build a seven story pagoda." How’s that for divine intervention. Blessings to you all
My husband and I have 5 children, and have practiced NFP for the duration of our marriage. Three out of the 5 were planned, and 2 were "oops" babies. Let me explain the "oops". Baby #3 was conceived shortly after my mother in law’s funeral, when I was breast feeding our 2nd. I kind of "knew" that it wasn’t the best time but went ahead anyway and had a little fun with my husband. The next morning I vividly remember checking my signs and saying to myself "oh shoot, what did we do?". Anyway, baby #3 came along 9 months later when #2 was 17 months old. Our 5th was also, not really planned either, at the time we had just made a Marriage Encounter Weekend and were just head over heels in love again. What can I say LOL?? After #5 was born, we both realized that God’s plan for us was to have 5 children. Our youngest is 13 now, and what a blessing he has been! Of course, all our children have been blessings to us! Because of many struggles that have gone on in our family over the last 8 or 9 years, God knew we could not handle another one. We are always open to new life, but my days are waning as the big "M" is rapidly approaching. I am happy that God gave us 5 beautiful children!
As we are going international this time – here is a comment from England.
I just wanted to add my own experience. My boyfriend and I are delaying our marriage because we are worried that we cannot support children with our current jobs and situation (we both have large debts from our university degrees). We live apart (he is still at home) and have done throughout our 5 year courtship, because we believe that if we were to marry, children would follow pretty soon afterwards. Although we would love to have a family, and pray that God will bless us with several ‘gifts’ we are putting considerable strain on our relationship because we can’t afford it yet.
No solutions really, just an example of another problem!
I disagree with people who insist that it is God’s plan for all families to be large families. I firmly believe using NFP to limit your family size at your own discretion is not only appropriate but it is only fair to the children you alreay have! I have three children (and endured one dreadful miscarriage) in 10 years of marriage. The children are 3 and 4 years apart. This spacing has been so wonderful, as we treasured the children’s babyhood, nursed for an extended period, and loved sharing our bed with these tiny important and fun litle people. I don’t care to space my children as closely as merely breastfeeding would allow. I do not care to add to our already strained finances by having babies every two years, either. I love being a sahm who homeschools and I love the attention I am able to provide my smaller (only in the most conservative circles is my family small!) family. We will continue to prevent pregnancy until God either moves my husband to want more children or shows us that we are ready by an "oops" pg. I am very open to life, and would be thrilled to find myself pregnant, but I see no need to usurp my children’s babyhood by giving them a brother or sister before they are old enough to be weaned from me, which isnt before 2-2.5 here.
I agree with Christi mum of twelve about judgement on others in family planning. My husband was an alcoholic during the time I had my children (14 months apart) and I decided I just could not handle another baby with my situation. Of course I was looking for the short term relief and realize now at the age of 50, if I would have trusted in God, things may have been different. I had no support system of extended family…my mother used birth control herself and I grew up in a predominately Protestant community along with the early 1980s culture of the women’s movement.
I realize that ultimately I did not place my trust in God’s will for my life. But I do believe in my situation, my decision was not out of selfishness ( I wanted a bigger house, etc) but out of the pain of living with an alcoholic. I do agree that we live in a materialistic society and many may not want children because they want to spend money on themselves. But it not in every case…
To reconcile myself with God, with this decision I made 2 decades ago, I now support my friends with large families and support the prolife movement.
Again, I agree with the mumoftwelve- be very careful in judging other people because you may not know all the factors playing into their situation.
I agree that it is so scary having children that were "not planned" in our will but it is God’w Will. we are pregnant with our 5th child and I am not yet 30 years old. Realistically I may have another 15 years of fertility. WOW! That frightens me. I am very overwhelmed as it is. Our oldest is not yet 6. Sleep deprived etc… I do have trust and great faith this is God’s Will- great peace overpowers me. If it was up to us, as we were hoping to hold off a while before conceiving again so soon, but God wants this baby. I did not get my menstrual cycle back while breastfeeding and did not know that I ovulated…Surprise–baby #5! SO, great faith….keep the prayer life no matter what. The act of your will to keep Christ the center of your life can keep you stable. Keep educated in NFP- attend classes over and over again if need be. Pray. Pray. Pray. God bless you all.
I have to admit, my most pet peeve question is "Are you done now?" In which I always say "I don’t know, God has not told me that yet!" We do have to be careful not to judge others we do not know their situations, and would not be able to walk in their shoes even one day. My husband and I have been married almost 10 years and have experienced both infertility (first 3 years) and a surprise pregnancy. Our 4th child was born this past month and we are truly blessed, but also need to be aware of others’ feelings and what they are going through. Mine are all c-sections, and although I would love to have more than 5 children, probably will not be able to. (although, I do have one miscarriage in heaven) It is hard not to judge the 2 and 3 child families who choose not to have any more because they are "done", and their reasons are purely selfish, but we have to remember God only can judge them and someday they will regret and understand more than they do now. Danielle I love the way you answered this topic. God Bless you!
My husband and I also struggled with NFP. I had a difficult time some months telling when I was fertile. Most of the time we have just left it in God’s hands. I struggled sometimes with having our kids fairly close together but God always provided for us. Whether it was food, clothes, money or more patience for Mom. As for the reality of having a large family. It is hard but wonderful. We have eight and just found out we are expecting our ninth. (My youngest is 10 months) I can’t imagine being without any of them. The older ones help with the younger ones and all help in some way around the house. Even if it is just picking up old cookies that a 10 month old someone can stuff into his mouth as fast as he can. Two of mine were definite oops babies and I’m so glad God sent them to us. This current baby is so wanted by us even though I am pregnant sooner then I had wanted to be. Please pray for him or her. There are complications and we aren’t sure what is going to happen. God bless.
We are at a different kind of crossroads right now: we’ve gotten really good at NFP! We had four boys in five years and then decided to really hunker down with NFP. The method never failed us, but we decided to stop taking risks, etc. and got very conservative. Now our youngest son is almost four-and-a-half and we are still prayerfully considering our family size. Is this the number of children for us? What does God want for us, in light of the life He has given us.
How do you take the plunge? We never had to try and get pregnant before — each pregnancy was a very pleasant surprise. We rejoiced, but also knew, at a point, we needed to take a break. Of course a baby is wonderful, life is wonderful, openness to life is important. But there is also free will and our responsibility as a couple to prayerfully consider what is best for our family. One family may decide 8 is that number (I’m the oldest of eight. Big families are beautiful!), while another may stop at three, or four.
It’s interesting: I find myself relying on God’s grace and mercy now that we’re praying through this situation as much as when we were having babies every 21 months.
Having a large family is a vocation in and of itself. Just as there are many houses in the temple of the Lord, there are many sizes of families. My husband and I have struggled with the realities of raising children and we take our role as parents and providers very seriously. We pray constantly that we are open to God’s call and sometimes there is some doubt as to what God really wants us to do.
I came from a very large family and I am grateful for the gift of my brothers and sisters, and the loving care I received from my parents. I don’t, however, think that it is the right choice for every husband and wife. There are financial, emotional and physical realities that have be addressed in every marriage and every family. God has given us the gift of not only our fertility, but our discernment as well.
I don’t really have any answer to this dilemna. Sometimes it’s hard to reign in the sexual appetite when the time is not right to have a child. Temperance is a virtue and it is perfected by practice and prayer. And on the flip side, I’ve never met anyone that has ever regretted an "oops" baby and the amount of joy that that child brought to the family.
I really have struggled with the not being judgemental of Catholics with small families…of course, God with his sense of humor has taken care of that for me!
First, we tried on and off for 5 years to concieve our first (for anyone who has "tried" to have a baby…it is emotionally exhausting!) Finally, we did a novena to St. Gerard Majella asking for a child. We even changed it up to ask for either a biological or adopted child. We filled out all the paperwork to do foster-adoption through Catholic Charities. We put off sending in the papers until the new year…and found out we were expecting our first during the second week of January!
So, there goes part of my judgementalism. The second part came with her birth…I had an extremely difficult c-section (she was breech) and had I not switched to doctor #3 for that pregnancy, I am certain that I would have ended up with a vertical incision and no possibility of ever having a vaginal birth (as is, I do have a vertical exterior incision because of the complications) but since my doc knew that I wanted to attempt a VBAC in the future, he made sure I could try.
I am now expecting #2, and I am very excited, yet terrified! I have to doctor and deliver 3 1/2 hours away from our home to be at a big city hospital…and honestly, the only things that could possibly be worse than my last delivery would be if 1) something happened to the baby (God forbid!), 2) if I lost my uterus, or 3) if I died…not to be morbid or anything! I am really hoping for a normal birth this time around…which would increase my chances of being able to have a larger family.
I have watched several good Catholic women struggle with the family issue. One had her 4th and last about 6 months before my first. She had all c-sections (attempted the first and second as vaginal births, but out here it is generally "once a c-section, always a c-section") and with her last had an emergency hysterectomy to save her life. Another had her fourth, and probably last. The first was a c-section, the next two were VBACs and the final one was an emergency c-section after VBAC attempt. The doctor told her that her uterine scar was getting very thin and he would be afraid of a rupture if she became pregnant again.
I know that there are probably many people in the pews that are using some form of contraception (or even using NFP with a contraceptive mentality) but I can’t tell you who they are…and even those that I know for a fact use contraception…all I can do is pray for them to have a change of heart.
The "are you going to have any more?" question that I get now that I am expecting #2 is very frustrating…but I just tell people that I am doing them one at a time…and they should talk to me after I get done with this one! I know it will only get worse with future children (particularly if this one turns out to be a boy…as then I’ll have "one of each!" the American ideal…) but I guess that is one of the small crosses that go along with having a larger family…
Your reader wrote of the "struggle with the conflict of truly being open to life and loving children and wanting a big family, but at the same time being overcome by the fear of the realities of a really big family and not knowing how to ’slow down.’"
I just want to emphasize that when we trust God and approach *all* aspects of life prayerfully, He will provide. He may not always provide in the ways we expect. When I had my fourth miscarriage, I was devastated and thought my husband and I had incorrectly discerned God’s will about that child. My wonderful spiritual director reminded me that God *did* want us to have that child — we just didn’t know why He wanted us to have him for such a short time. But, even with the losses, God has provided. He has taught me something ineffable with each miscarriage, and I’ve learned to trust that my heartbreaks are in His hands.
As for judging, we just can’t ever really know what’s going on within a particular family. As most commenters have said, we have no idea what people are going through — I have six souls in heaven, and only three "visible" children on earth. My own experience has helped me to see that the visible number of children says very little about one’s faithfulness to Church teaching.
Oops … that’s me below … anonymous … Didn’t mean to be ….
My husband and I have struggled with NFP/fertility/God’s plan for our family for our entire marriage. It’s safe to say that it’s our biggest disagreement EVERY SINGLE MONTH.
If it were completely up to him, we would probably continue to have children until we had 12, or more…. On the other side, I felt like 2 was a lot for me to handle and be a good mommy to my kids. I have serious health issues and have been on medication for the last nine years.
We were married for 8 years before we were blessed with our first baby. We actually took the Sympto-Thermal method class to be able to conceive—-we were the ONLY ones in the class who took the class for this reason.
My husband used to joke when people asked why we didn’t have any children "yet" when we were doing everything we could to have a baby, but it was terribly painful for both of us when I would get my cycle each month. It was like a death in the family, and cause for our biggest fights in our marriage at that time.
We are now expecting our 4th baby, due in July, and are very excited about it.
That said, I believe that some people are very self-righteous and prideful when it comes to deciding what other couples "ought to be doing" when it comes to having more children. We have been on the receiving end of criticism and personal questioning about why we do not have *more* children than we have.
We are not all called to have a certain set number of babies. If so, it would be written in the Ten Commandments, or in one of the Gospels. But it isn’t.
I guess I am just not as holy and trusting as a lot of other Moms are out there. I feel like four is beyond my limit of being able to keep a cheerful disposition, homeschool, read to my darlings, rock the youngest to sleep, keep my marriage strong and try to keep our household from falling apart.
But yet, here I am, expecting another baby…..so pray for me please, and know that some of us with "smaller families" also struggle with balancing God’s Will, and the very human limits some of us have……
My husband and I are just begininng our fertility adventures- we have been married for about a month.
I was using the Creighton Model for charting my cycle for about 5 or 6 months before the wedding. We had agreed that NFP would not be used during our honeymoon, but that we would see where we were when we came home, to determine whether we would try to postpone pregnancy for a little while or not.
As the wedding approached, I kind of stopped charting, and then I had the longest cycle of my life…45 days (I am a clockwork 28 day girl) and I am almost certain I was fertile during the honeymoon (which I prayed for anyways). Creighton was easy to use before the wedding, but I haven’t ordered more charts to use yet. I think for now we’re just going to see what happens…I’m 8 days late for a 28 day cycle, but maybe it will be another long one, and the pregnancy test I took was negative, though it may have been too early. We both desire a very large family, and I have practice dealing with many children (I babysit for lots of large families) and I enjoy it…though I realize that to babysit is not even close to what it must be like to have children of your own, 24/7. So we’ll see. I think as long as we trust God, He will provide and plan our famly. I don’t think God would give anyone more than they can handle, though sometimes we may feel as Mother Theresa did when she said, "I wish He didn’t trust me with so much."
I wish I knew what the letters NFP mean?????
Marianne,
NFP = Natural Family Planning
NFP – Natural Family Planning
When my husband and I were dating I used to joke that I wanted 12 children. I considered it a good sign when he wasn’t scared away! We now have five little "buggas" and one in heaven; half way there!
I can tell you that I count among my greatest blessings two things: 1)my six children, and 2)being of one heart and mind with my husband with regard to having more children. This is so not the case for many of you, and my heart goes out to you women! Believe me, there are many areas where my strong-willed husband and his strong-willed wife disagree! But I find that the Holy Spirit often speaks to me the loudest in the form of my husband’s voice. Sigh. So I try to submit and when I fail (which is often) I try a little harder next time.
Anyway. If you don’t mind me saying so, a healthy sex life is one of the best things that can happen to a marriage. Certainly I didn’t come up with this philosophy on my own, but I can attest to its truthfulness! And as it works out, such beautiful intimacy often results in a beautiful little beebums 10 months down the road. Isn’t that a wonderful thing? No child–let me repeat it for emphasis–NO child can be conceived without God willing it.
So I’ll pray for you and you pray for me. Perhaps our prayer should be the strenthening of marriages & families in general, which NFP certainly does.
We also want a big family, and have also struggled with NFP and with the realities of actually having a big family. We are among 37.7% of couples who ovulate prior to return of menses (but unlike most, we’ve conceived right away each time). This was a BIG struggle with our 2nd and 3rd pregnancies. We felt like we were suppossed to be spacing our kids and were not being responsible by having them so close together; but we have since learned that the Church teaches that using NFP is a privation, not the "status quo", although it is a great blessing for those who have grave reasons to avoid pregnancy.
We very often feel overwhelmed but have been trying to maintain an attitude of thankfulness instead of allowing those feelings to grow into worry and fear. That in itself is an exercise in perseverance and can only be accomplished by the grace of God. Looking back, I see how with each pregnancy He has led us to trust in Him more, and given us the grace to grow in humility, patience, and love.
Does this mean that having a large family is the only way, or even the best way to advance in holiness? Of course not! The Church, in her infinite wisdom, gives us saints from all walks of life because our paths to holiness are not the same, but lie in discerning and doing God’s will with JOY! Yep…something to work on.
I wanted to add something else that I have thought about since I posted last night. I find it to be a challenge to discern your family size, particularly when you have families who point you in different directions. My family is one of those families who basically just attends Mass on Sundays where my husband’s family is on the opposite end of that and attends Latin Mass and the Church encompasses every aspect of their life. One family couldn’t believe we waited until our first was a year to have the 2nd and the other family was shocked it happened so fast. It’s difficult to find the way that God wants you to have in the midst of family pressure, from either direction. Ok, that’s all I wanted to add.
We contracepted the first few years of our marraige the used NFP for 10 years. I spent most of my last pegnancy very angry.(Didn’t go to confession for 7 months) I knew it was a bad week to be intimate and was exhausted caring for sick kids and had very serious reasons to use NFP. Yet we were pregnant. My husband just never got reading the charts and didn’t get me awake enough to get a clear answer- I don’t remember conceiving. I stuggled along for a year then ask him to get a vasectomy.
I know it is sin and we pay the price every month. I thought at least now I don’t have to try and teach him to wait anymore– of course now there is no motivation. The fact is he was not prepared for this when we married and I was a woos– unable to stand up for anything for fear I’d lose him.
We must prepare our children: to love to sacrifice for others, to expect to wear out and die so expend yourself for others, to eat, sleep and live healthy so fertility is easier to manage if you must.
Don’t get me wrong I love my husband and my children. My mother taught me what was known about NFP at the time. We’ve grown and learned a lot from NFP. But it requires tremendous efforts on the part of the spouses and we must give them credit when the do well– something I struggle to do.
Wish I’d had doctors who understood. I cornered the last one with the remark that everytime I asked my doctors for help I got an anectdote about a Catholic who got permission or forgivness for using Birth Control instead of Medical advice on staying healthy.
If no one told you: Couple to Couple League has a Nutritionist who is also a trained teacher. She wrote a book on using nutrition to make all stages of fertility easier to deal with and what health issues to discuss with your doctor if you see certain abnormalities in your chart. Her name is Marilyn Shannon.
We’ve been married 57 years and have 5 children and had 1 miscairage. I always said I wanted 6 children. We went by the charts all those years but it stills happens. When I got pregnant the last time I was really upset but my daughter is the most precious thing in my life. I love all my children but she is special and I thank God for her every day.
I am a convert to Catholicism and I sometimes think, "what I am I crazy?" I have two small children and sometimes feel there is no way I could ever have more. I usually spend one afternoon a week in tears. I pray so earnestly for faith and hope. I don’t know what the future will hold for our family size but I know the only way to survive is to pray and take it all one child at a time. God will give us the grace we need when it is time.
Please look up my poem:"My child" at Poetry.com under my above name. It goes well with what you have written above about woman that cannot conceive. You can use it in your column if you want to. I read your column every day. Thanks for being you.
Love, Gigi
One child at a time is the case for most of us (some come by twos and threes, but that is not the usual)…I think this is the way to move on. I suspect that most of us with kids spend an afternoon here or there in tears, I know I do (we have three under 4.5). But I know these years will be fleeting, I know that the one afternoon of crying that I spent with one hasn’t been multiplied by three, so I suspect if we were blessed with three more it wouldn’t increase that much more. I suspect that barring physical/mental illness that most of us are just dealing with facing our weaknesses and our sins and that one more child would expose that much more for God to heal. I also think that, as women we tend to dwell on the fears, the worry, the things don’t get done, or might not get done.
I know all these things and yet I still find myself in tears a couple times a week wondering how God could have entrusted such sweet souls to such an awfully selfish and weak mom. I mean, What was He thinking?!!
But here they are and I pray, on my good days, that they will have more siblings to fill their lives with more joy, and mine too!
When we were engaged, people used to ask my husband and me, "How many children do you want?" We always answered, "No more than 10." After having our first child, we realized what a true blessing children are (this was despited the fact that we had a colicky baby, who cried no matter what we tried to do, so we held our crying baby and swayed and rocked). Based on our realization, we changed our answer to the infamous question to, "However, many God wants to bless us with." Like those I responded to, I always thought that this would mean a lot of children. When I miscarried our fifth child, I realized that being open to life does not mean that we will necessarily have 8, 10, or 12 children. It does mean that we will love each child that God entrusts to our care, whether He blesses us with 1 or 15. I will pray for all those who are struggling with being open to life. May God give you all the love and perseverance you need!
I too stuggle ALOT reading my signs. At first , I learned one method of NFP that was taught in a group settling. Honestly I couldn’t follow along, even with extra help from the instructor. My husband and I joked that we would get pregnant since we couldn’t follow along, and sure enough we did. Well, after #2, I looked into a different method, that had individual instuction, that helped me alot. We met alot and I finally..after lots of instuction..learned it. I know that if I didn’t change methods, I would be very upset with NFP. Luckily there are different methods for all of us different learners.
there are already so many comments i haven’t read them all, but i wanted to jot a quick note to the mothers with a few young children who find themselves really struggling right now….i was in this same boat a couple years ago, with 3 under 3 (the first 3 just came very quickly, too quickly for me to figure out nfp) i thought i was going to LOSE it. i spent time angry at God, i really struggled with this, BUT i just prayed really hard, asking God and Our Lady for a break, some space, everyday, i prayed for what i felt i really needed. ultimately, God answered my prayers and there was a 4 1/2 year space until baby #4. my point is twofold, first family planning should go along with lots and lots and lots and lots of prayer and communication with God. i really think He will work with you on this issue if you work with Him. i think, in fact, that this is the point of NOT contracepting. God wants the marriage to be a constant work in progress, a cooperation between our will and His. NFP does give us some control, yet it also allows for God to work with us. my second point is this, now, with time gone by, everyday i thank God that my first three came so close together, i suffered at first, but now every day is made easier by how close those first three are. they play together, they do just about everything together, and suddenly my job isn’t so difficult. So you see? God had my best interest in mind all along, i just had to work with HIM a little. TRUST HIM. this is what i want to send out to people that are struggling with this issue. GIVE GOD THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBTS AND FEARS, HE HAS YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART, ultimately good will come out of your trust, even if it’s very difficult…i always think too myself, how do i know what God might have planned for the next child? He has done a good job planning my family so far…..(even if at times i wasn’t so sure).
I actually don’t find the question "Are you done yet?" offensive – I get a kick out of it! But the question I love the most, when my husband and i are on a date (and I’m pregnant) is "Is this your first?" I love to watch their jaw drop when I say no, it’s our 7th, or 8th, or 9th…..
We have nine kids, ages 15 months to 15 years. I am 42 and my husband is 48. Most would think we are "too old’ to have another, but I am hoping for one more soul to love and nurture. We home school, and like most of you, I have days where I cry, yell too much, and wonder what the heck we’ve gotten ourselves into. And days where I’m exhausted. But most days I’m just tired, like most moms, and when I lay my head down at night, ready to pass out, I’m so grateful for the nine he’s given us.
If you have a smaller family, please don’t ever think I’m judging you simply because I have a larger family! I just said to a friend the other day, who is struggling with being pregnant with her 7th at age 42 – I said – don’t think that Gary and I are so holy and so open to God’s will, etc. At least half of our babies have been "passion babies" – we were using NFP, but in the moment decided our reason wasn’t as important as we thought it was. I would say it has been much easier to postpone and space the babies as i’ve gotten older – our energy is more depleted and we do have more serious reasons for a longer space than when we were young. I did struggle in my 30’s with being open at times; at times I downright feared getting pregnant again because of the mental tenacity and total giving up of self it required to have another baby (and to be pregnant!). We too had many close together – our oldest was 7 when the sixth one was born. But I can truly say that I’ve crossed over to the other side, and never thought I’d say that I wanted another after age 40. Besides the grace of God, I see two reasons for this change. One is perspective – the older I get, the more I appreciate the gift of fertility and new life and see how very fast that baby grows. And I realize that it’s not so much about what we WANT, but about being open to God’s will. People ask my husband when I’m pregnant – Well, how many kids do you WANT? And he jokingly says, "Three". It would sure be a lot easier, but it obviously wasn’t God’s will for us! The second reason is – the older kids help a ton. I’ve always said that I couldn’t have had these last two babies without the help of the other kids. It’s so different than when they were ALL little – now they can cook, do laundry, mow the lawn, help with the baby (which they love), and pretty soon drive (yikes!).
I know I’m taking up too much space here, but I have to say that the question of being open to another becomes difficult to discern for some of us in the post-40 group. We have new concerns to deal with, like our aging bodies being worn down and tired, having children still in the home when we’re in our sixties, providing for all of those children financially after retirement age when they’re still minors,etc. And the biggie – will I have a special needs child? The rate of that increases the older we get. I was on a retreat in February – flew to Kansas City, MO and on the final day attended Sunday mass at the beautiful Shrine in downtown KC. I had been contemplating and praying about God’s will in the area of openness to life; our newest baby had just weaned and my cycles were returning. I saw an older couple , maybe in their mid-60’s, with an adult child in a wheelchair seated close to me. The thought occurred to me – O my goodness, that could be US if we are open to another child! WE could have a special needs child who will never leave home! And then I remembered a line the priest on our retreat had said – He was asking his superior if what he was about to hear was good news or bad news, and his superior replied, "The will of God is always good news". And so God touched my heart that day, reminding me that if He does send us a child with special needs, it is good news! It is what he has planned for me, my husband, and our other children to continue on our path to sanctity.
I will leave with this – what gets me through the often noisy, often chaotic days are things like daily exercise, a daily nap, almost daily chocolate, a back rub now and then from my husband, a weekly date night, monthly confession, prayer, horseback riding, a weekend away with my husband and once a year 4-6 day trip with just the two of us, laughing a lot, and Danielle’s web site – which is the ONLY one I visit because I have no time! I guess those things all help me to be open to God’s will for us, which hopefully WILL include one more soul.
Off to my nap,
Teresa
We have been married for 10 years. We used NFP to avoid a pregnancy for the first 4 years. We got pregnant with our first daughter after only 2-3 months of trying. When our first daughter was 14 months old, we got pregnant with our second daughter. When she was 14 months old, we got pregnant with our third daughter. Now that baby is almost 13 months old and we are praying for a longer break this time. I had some serious health issues with my third pregnancy and I would like to get those improved before getting pregnant again. I think I’m going to take the NFP class again to refresh my memory since it seems like FOREVER since I’ve really paid attention to the fertility signs. I’m worn out as a mother to 3 children under the age of 5 and struggle every day with having more even though I really want to have 6. I just keep praying for God’s will to be done. Easier said than done, though.
We had two children in our early twenties. The first is special needs. I was already pregnant with our second when my first was quite ill and being diagnosed. I was very angry at God and we did everything against the church’s teaching short of abortion to make sure we didn’t have more children. Several years ago we had a change of heart and realized the beauty of church teachings. Now in our early 40’s we would love more children but thus far have been unable.
I wish that NFP had been as widely available and respected all those years ago. We had a valid reason for spacing and NFP would have been easily reversable when things settled down.
As a mom of a child with special needs and medical issues the issue of having a handicapped child if I become pregnant in my 40’s is the least of my worries. Not that it isn’t a sometimes daily challenge but it’s one of those things that really gets you to your knees and humbles and strenghtens you if you’re open to the graces. I just want everyone to not fear it and think that special needs/ medical issues etc only happen when you’re older.
I am married to a non-Catholic and he has his reasons for being somewhat skeptical of NFP. Probably because although we married just three years ago when I was 23 it took us a year of "just trusting God" to get pregnant and then we lost that baby at seven weeks. Next Friday, if something doesn’t happen sooner, I will deliver my first by cesarean. I read the books,took classes did everything I felt was right with NFP but my signs were next to impossible to read. I have never been regular and that was complicated with the diagnosis of a septated uterus which the doctor told me not only complicated my chances of becoming pregnant, it put at serious risk the chances of carrying a baby to term. In fact, the doctor surmised that many of my "late" periods were, in fact, early miscarriages.
My husband and I struggled with the fact that although we felt called to be parents and that it was a part of God’s will, it wasn’t happening. I often prayed and asked God, why He would create such a desire for me to be a mother when I couldn’t seem to become one. This feeling intensified when we could not find an adoption agency that would give us a chance because my husband and I are seventeen years apart in age. It’s easy with having a baby only being a week away to think now that God’s timing isn’t always our timing, but it is very difficult to appreciate that when you are struggling to become pregnant and have been judged to your face for not yet having a child despite all of your best efforts. We knew that even if we felt morally sound about it, that we couldn’t afford fertility treatments but we felt pressured to consider them when people would look down their noses at us at church and make comments both behind our backs and directly to us with the assumption that we were using artificial birth control. With this kind of judgment, I understand my husband’s hesitancy to become Catholic. It is hard to do as Christ said and, "love one another as I have loved you," when you are struggling with a loss and those around you are not only not supportive but blaming you for your loss.
As Danielle said the hardest words to pray are "Thy will be done." It is even harder to accept those words when the human beings around you do not understand that God’s will in their lives might not be God’s will in yours. Our situation became so trying at one point that we were not allowed to volunteer with children in some groups because we were not parents. Talk about a slap in the face. It was especially hard to "turn the other cheek" with some of these very Christian/Catholic groups.
Last April, I had surgery to correct the septum in my uterus, after a month of recovery (read: abstinence) we began trying again. Just as the final arrangements for my surgery were being made, my husband’s brother and sister-in-law announced that after one month of trying (and my over 40 year old sister-in-law being on artificial birth control since she was 19) they were pregnant. While I was happy for them, I kept asking God what they were doing right and what was I doing wrong? There were five long months of trying to get pregnant after my surgery and our nephew was born during that time. Since my surgery, I had been on a regular 28 day cycle for the first time in my life. The fourth month, I was a week late on that cycle. Finally deciding to take a home pregnancy test, after a week, it came out with results that were unreadable (try one and a half lines). That day, I started a new cycle and my sister-in-law’s water broke. I cried feeling like this might be the sign that God’s plan might be that we never have a child of our own either through natural or adoptive ways. In the next few weeks, my husband suffered a colorectal cancer scare, I had tonsillitis, an adoption agency contacted us back that they would be more than willing to help us find a child to love and somehow we became pregnant.
One thing I have learned from this experience is not only how precious the gift of a child is, but how harsh and cruel human beings can be toward one another. When we tell someone that we are Catholic and only believe in NFP, we must be careful not to put a judgment of the other person’s character into that conversation. We have no idea what types of struggles that person might be going through. And we must be most careful at judging other Catholics. Remember that many men and women at mass who might only have one or two children or none at all despite being married "forever" might not have a concious decision in those factors. And God’s will for each family is not necessarily a tank-load of kids. My parents had zero fertility problems and were pregnant with me "an oops baby" two months into their marriage. They knew nothing of NFP. My husband and I who were older and more educated tried to time our honeymoon around my most fertile time to no avail.
I didn’t mean to make this so long, but just to conclude, my mother always told my brothers and I growing up that, "If there were really such a thing as ’safe sex’ only Michael would be here." Kind of puts a new spin on all types of family planning.
I had my first 3 kids in less than 3 years. It was a crazy time, and I don’t remember much, just lots of diapers and not a lot of sleep! LOL
We would never have chosen that timeline, but I have no regrets now (after all, it makes a great "war story"!) and I wouldn’t trade those years for anything.
I have 5 kids now, the oldest is 8, and the youngest will be 2 in Sept. We switched NFP methods and now use the Creighton method. It works great for us and has pinpointed some hormone issues for us that have been really helpful in regulating things. And so now we have the same problem as Rachel….when will/should the next little one make her/his appearance?
Also, I have to have cesareans, (yes, I do….my NFP-only, pro-life Catholic doctor says so….) and I really panic at the thought of it, I hate hate hate surgery. And so, that is my main struggle here.
I love my kids, I’d love to have more…..but when?
My wife and I used NFP to avoid pregnancy for the first 3 years of marriage. God has sent us 6 babies over the next 8 years including our 3-month-old twins.
We honestly find that God’s grace has expanded to our need. The older kids are a ton of help and our parents are both involved and help out too.
My wife was always open to a big family but I was always worried about the financial end. I found out that when you turn fertility over to God He not only expands your graces he also provides financially as well. We don’t live extravagantly but we have everything we need and lots of stuff we don’t need as well.
When I went on strike for 7 weeks more food and money than I needed was brought to my door. Most of it very mysteriously.
The kids have taught me so much about God. My 5 year old insisted on giving me a toonie ($2 Cdn. coin) for my birthday. I knew this was half of her entire savings. At first I didn’t want to take it from her but she insisted. I took it and said to myself, I’ll just find a way to give it back to her. And since she was so generous I would give her back $5. It took a while to sink in but I realized this is how God takes care of us. What father would not repay his generous child.
Since that day I no longer worry. If we generously turn everything over to God, He will provide for us in abundance.
Another comment from down under, if I might!
I have been married for 15 months. My husband has just recently started to practice his faith again after I discovered the Catholic faith 2 years ago. As such, we ‘compromised’ in the first year of our marriage and rather than using contraception or being truly open to new life, a workable solution for both of us was NFP. Although I would have been thrilled to have a baby right away, my husband was worried about our financial situation and didn’t feel ready, and so I understood that it was important to be unified in our procreative choices. A year after our marriage, my husband felt ready to stop using NFP to prevent a pregnancy and start using it to try.. I was absolutely thrilled!
Unfortunatelty, we have been unable to fall pregnant so far and my cycles indicate that there may be some fertility problems on my behalf that warrant investigation. Part of me has been angry with my husband for ‘making me wait’ for a year before trying, part of me has been frustrated with Our Lord for giving me such a strong maternal desire, making me wait so patiently and then not blessing me with a child on demand
But the more sensible side of me recognises two things. One is that my husband is such a good man and has come so far in his faith during our marriage. One of my prayers has been that he comes to understand the beauty of true openness to new life, and I see great progress being made there every day. Perhaps if fertility had come so easily to us, my husband may not have recognised the great gift that new life is. The second thing I see is that Our Lord has a lot to teach, particularly through the blessing of suffering, which an angel friend of mine pointed out to me recently.. He only gives suffering to those He loves so that we may be united more closely with Him. Our Lord knows the best time for giving the gift of life, and sometimes, we just need to learn to trust in Him a little more on His terms
For all of those who have been blessed with children, please know that it can be a difficult task to fall pregnant for some of us, and we do look upon you with envy. Treasure your gift of fertility, as it is a fleeting time in your life, but one that will reap great rewards in your elderly years
Danielle,
Thank you so much for this posting. It couldn’t have come at a better time! (we’ll be discussing this very issue next week at our Bible study).
I have 6 kids ages 8 and under. I homeschool. I have to have c-sections every time. I’m 39 years old. I live in a small house with only one bathroom. I sometimes go nuts with the lack of space, the incessant needs of little ones, and the inevitable clutter.
You know what? It’s all grace.
I have learned SO MUCH from my children that I would never have learned any other way. I have seen others give generously at times when I felt completely overwhelmed. I am being carried every step of the way.
It’s terrifying being open to life when so many around us look at us as if we are insane… and sometimes, we wonder if we are. But for my husband and I, it came down to this: does Our Lord have a plan for our lives, or does He look down and say, "Oops! They conceived another one! Better come up with a plan for that one too…"
I have to believe that He knows our needs (and our limits) and has a plan for each of us. He is inviting us to share in His creation, and gives us the privilege of raising these precious little ones and teaching them about Him… and journeying together towards our eternal life with Him.
It tears me apart to realize that if my husband and I had "planned" our pregnancies, we would be deprived of several of our children…
Shortly after I had my 7th child, I was in confession with a holy priest, and I tearfully asked, "Father, is it wrong for me NOT to be open to life right now?" He replied, "What do you mean? You ARE open to life!!! You are nurturing the seven children that you have. That IS openness to life." I am now pregnant with my 8th, and yes, feeling a little bit overwhelmed. But my constant consolation is knowing that God will never send me a greater cross (or greater blessing!) than I can handle. Each of my beautiful children and my loving husband are my path to heaven.
I am 41 and struggling with my changing body. NFP signs change. It is a challenge for me. Again, the use of NFP relies on what we KNOW of our bodies! And it presupposes openness to life with every marital act. The only 100% sure ages-old way of not getting pregnant: abstinence!
Christopher West has an audio CD set entitled "Woman, God’s Masterpiece," that I just listened to today. I highly recommend it for all women (and their husbands). The very dignity of woman lies in the fact of her being made to be "receptive to life." (This is not a give-in to the mentality that women are "baby factories." On the contrary, West challenges husbands to "genuflect" (!)before their wives to acknowledge the greatness of their ability to bear new life.)
My prayers for all of you beautiful, faithful women.
It looks like I’m not the only one a little bit confused about spacing children with NFP when one’s cycle hasn’t resumed yet…
I am the mother of 22-month old twin boys who joined our family through the miracle of adoption, after a 7-year infertility struggle. I am one of nine children, so I never thought that infertility would be one thing that I would face…in fact I thought I’d have the challenge that so many of you have in prayerfully spacing your blessings. But God had other plans for my life and my marriage.
I spent many days (Ok – years) confused, in pain and downright angry at God. Why could something that comes so easy to others, something that is to be the crowning joy of a marriage – children – be impossible for us? Why did God give us the desire to be parents if He wasn’t going to allow us to conceive? Were we not worthy to parent? Over the years, we have had many friends who were quick to tell us time and again how lucky we were – we could go out to eat whenever we wanted, we didn’t have late night feedings and we didn’t have to "worry" each month about a possible pregnancy. What many of them didn’t know is how much we wanted that monthly worry. These seven years were difficult and painful ones for me and my husband…a true test of our faith.
It wasn’t until my husband and I completely surrendered this area of our lives – our infertility – over to God that we began to experience His peace and a firm belief that He had a better plan for us and in His time that plan would be revealed. And now, as my house vibrates with my sons’ laughter…I can see His plan more clearly and I give thanks to Him for all of my "unanswered prayers over the years".
We can be as open to life as possible, but ultimately it is God who opens and closes our wombs. For some of us, I believe He closes our wombs so that He can open our hearts to adoption…as He did for me.
I thought this article on Catholic Exchange this morning spoke beautifully to many of the posts here. Isn’t this what it is all about – letting go of our fears and trusing God?
http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=6&art_id=33532
I think the most important thing, like a few others have said is not to judge others. I used to be of the mindset that people with few or no children were "less holy." As I’ve gotten older (okay, I’m only 30) and had kids of my own (only 3 so far) I’ve realized that you never know what someone else is going through, either physically, or emotionally. I used to think we would have enough babies to make up for declining birthrates in Europe, but now I know that a) we don’t have as much control as we think we do over our fertility and b)having a large family isn’t for everyone. I hope to have a large family by today’s standards (6?) but I’m still not sure how much my husband can handle, either. He struggles with fathering three, and our marriage has hit a rough patch. We had been using a sort of lazy approach to NFP since my cycles returned, but I am torn between just diving in and having another baby, and hoping it all works out, or trying to work out our other problems first, which will then space our children out a little more than I would like. I just have to pray that God’s will be done. Which, in a sense, is exactly what happens when you are open to life by practicing NFP.
Thank you everyone for your responses. I spent a good deal of yesterday in between carpools, preparing dinner & cleaning up thinking about some of the responses. It really is a mystery, I think, as to why some parents embrace large families and others don’t. I come from a large family (8) and it is puzzling to me that out of all my brothers & sisters, only three of us have taken on the vocation of marriage & children, and between us, I have the largest family (4 children).
Hats off to all of you who have embraced the challenges and joys of large families. I truly admire you.
i guess this speaks to the idea that non of us should ever judge others, but i think it’s good to remember with respect to generosity, everyone can bes in a different place on this. my husband, for example, is not catholic, and never thought he would get married…..let alone have any children at all never ever. well, he met me, a catholic girl. and fell in love. now, four childrend a wife and (well not a minivan, a honda pilot) later, he is still open to more kids even if he needs to take things a little more slowly at this point (thank God for nfp, because, yes, even as a non catholic he is generous enough to do this as well. so, i guess my point is, he has come a very long way….as far as generosity goes. (as have i and still trying to grow on this front) so i think this can be a process too. we may not all start out thinking, great, big family…in fact we may never think that, but it can be a process that we work on everyday. trying to grow, trying to be more open….praying to be more open. or in the case of people struggling with the other side, infertility, again, a similar process, praying to be mi gore open to God’s plan…..i guess i am just addressing the idea of generosity. that it’s a process too…
sorry, i just realized how many typos….it’s still early here in calif.
Something to consider: Are our children only "blessings" when we’re pregnant or only when they are babies? I always hear mothers of large families say, "We’d hate to limit God’s blessings." Is there a time when the children we have are blessings enough? Shouldn’t we spend the time and energy we use worrying if we’re pregnant or avoiding the marital tension that NFP causes raising the blessings we have? By the way…anyone who has ever done NFP, if honest about it, knows NFP fails. Let’s love and care for the children we have and stop worrying about the ones we don’t.
There were so many good contributions on NFP! However, I am missing one perspective in the considerations of how many (more)?
We are currently expecting our 5th, and while we discuss the possibility of another one, I find myself out of experience in a situation to really want to hear, listen and obey my husband’s input and considerations for future planning. I know from past considerations that I get really emotional, probably because I am a woman. It doesn’t mean I throw common sense out the window, but it means that I get lopsided in my approach.
My husband, and all husbands who support stay-at-home, possibly homeschooling, mums have possibly (or most likely) a different take on the whole thing. Unless, your husband knows for sure that his job is secure he may not have the worry. But in our situation, the field my husband works in is not secure. The financial burden can be felt immensely, and it is not as easy for men to have the blind trust in the LORD’s providence as it may be for women, according to my observations. I believe it is a sign of a tremendous sense of responsibility on the side of my husband to go to work every day, faithfully, making sure he gives his best at work, so he gets indispensable, makes a good income, gets possibly promoted, etc…… None of that is easy; it is a huge sacrifice. He says at least a few times every the week "if only I could stay home with all of you" as we are his anchor.
In good, honest, authentic communication as well as in prayer is in my mind the solution. The rational capacity that GOD gave us along with the reproductive one should not be underestimated, and used wisely in cooperation with GOD’s grace that he gives us abundantly also.
Boy, this thread really reminded me of when I had my fourth baby. My oldest was 4, we had just moved to a much smaller house, my husband was starting a new job, the baby was having medical problems (OK now), I had been on bed rest before the birth and I was supposed to start officially homeschooling in about 6 months. It was hard! It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done! I am really praying for you guys that are there now: all little kids is hard!
Because of some medical issues, we waited three years before having our fifth (now a year old). Looking back now, we had serious reason to wait even without the medical stuff, though – I was getting overwhelmed. This is what prayerful discernment is all about!
For those of you with lots of little guys, it’s going to get a whole lot easier pretty quickly. Once your oldest turns 5 or 6 (and the others are following quickly, remember), they (suddenly, as it seemed to me) sleep through the night reliably, dress and feed themselves, pick up their toys (with lots of direction), and even help with the younger kids. The big family model works because the little kids get bigger!
That being said, I am astounded at how much I enjoyed my fifth baby! I think I was getting "babied out" with 4 in a row. I was actually surprised at how much I wanted a baby when we were ready for our fifth. I am even more startled at how much I want another baby now! So, it’s not a sin to take a break and recover, nor is it being closed to life, in fact, it may help you be much more open to life! I can see that even if I were to have 4 more kids in a row now, it would never be that hard again.
Ready for some radical comments from a Man’s perspective! Feel free to comment or trash my statements for I am curious to your thoughts.
My wife and I have 4 children, practice NFP(yuck) and have been married for only 6 years. I love my kids and thank GOD daily for them. They are my pride and joy and would give the world for them.
Here are my questions/comments
If the church approved contraception, how many of you would use it? They won’t but I wonder what we would do.
How about the physical shape of the woman? Is she simply supposed to succumb to the fact that she is going to be fat after having 6 plus kids? Doesn’t that mess with the psychology? I know it messes with my wife’s.
How about the sex? Doesn’t it seem like during NFP sex is always bad. Why? Because even though things seem safe baby number 4,5,6 .. could be coming. STRESS even during sex!! Isn’t sex an important healthy, fun part of a Catholic marriage? According to JP II it sure is!! Do you know what the best part of pregnancy is? The sex! Why? No chance of another pregnancy (don’t be shocked, you all know its true)
I work in a corporate setting as I am sure many of your husbands do. I interact daily with ladies that are dressed to kill. I love my wife dearly and think she is gorgeous and will spend the rest of my life with her. But my comment is how you think it makes a husband feel when he comes home to a smaller, crowded house, wife crazed from dealing with kids all day, no make-up on, wearing sweat pants and a baggy t-shirt. My wife doesn’t dress like this for we have had this conversation but how many husbands walk into this. This simply isn’t fair. I know it isn’t easy being a stay at home mom but if I had to walk into this everyday which I know many husband do, I would be hurting.
We live in a much different world where temptation is all around us compared to 40 years ago. I believe women are beautiful and should make a heroic effort to continue looking beautiful for their husbands who come home worrying everyday if they are going to have enough money to feed their family. Don’t get me wrong though, husbands have as much responsibility to do their part when they come home from work, giving the wife a break, showering her with praise and flowers etc.. With this being said I think women were not designed only to bear children but to nurture and give their husbands 1st PLACE. I believe in many large families the kids get all of the attention and the husbands and wives end up with almost no relationship or one party gives all the attention to the children. The number one job of husbands and wives is to LOVE each other; this is the best case for both the couple and the children. So in short if you and your spouse can spend that quality time with each other (not 5 minutes) and build a loving God centered relationship with 10 kids then great for you, but many parents who work 60 hours a week simply can’t do that for we live in a society where if you don’t work these hours you don’t have a job.
I just wanted to say to Anon2…. (and I’ll qualify my statements because…as I commented earlier, I’m 22 and have been married for a month now so I am in NO WAY an expert)
My husband and I just graduated college, I take care of my grandmother 3 days a week who has Alzheimer’s, and my husband is still looking for a good job. That said, on our honeymoon, when we were fertile, I felt our marital relations were MORE exciting knowing that quite possibly…we were co-creating with God..thinking to myself "wow, this act of love we have for eachother bears fruit..and it could really bear fruit in the form of another human being." Again, having been married for a month, and (obviously) having no children yet, I haven’t really had occasion to be stressed about concieving (although plently of other people are stressed for us..seeing as DH has no job yet). But honestly…I know that if we are generous with God, He will be generous to us. I trust that he will take care of us.
I know plently of large families whose mothers are in great shape. I don’t know what they do (and I plan to find out…whatever they’re doing…I’M doing!) so I think..our body images definately affects us. But how much of what we women feel about our bodies is accurate, and how much is influenced by our culture? Being healthy and in good shape doesn’t mean that all women will look like Nicole Kidman, esp. after having many children…but our bodies were MADE this way, to bear children. As for the ladies who "dress to kill"…I used to dress that way, because visual attention from men was all I knew how to attract, it’s all I thought I deserved..again, our culture (unfortunately I grew up in the MTV generation) tells girls and women that unless we look "sexy" we 1) won’t get a man’s attention 2)will have no self-worth (because it comes from the attention) and 3) we won’t look "empowered." Most likely the women who "dress to kill" need your prayers because they are hurting…I know I was. I certainly think women should try to look nice for their husbands…and I think most women WANT that.
I know I love to dress nice (or even just take an extra moment to do something I know he loves…like putting a headband in my hair) and recieve a compliment from my husband. But I also think we all, men and women both, have to work harder to reject false standards of beauty.
I think the key to a good, holy, and Catholic sex life is complete trust in the Lord. We use NFP knowing that our family size is still in His hands, that we have left the wiggle room there to able to co-operate with Him and whatever His will might be. Does any one of us have perfect trust? Of course not. So we worry. We stress. But as Christ said about marriage, "In the beginning it was not so"…I think we just have to trust, and if we don’t trust, then, as Father Corapi says, "PRAY!!!!" for trust.
PS. As for the hypothetical of Holy Mother Church approving contraception….you still couldn’t pay me to use it. Weight gain, irratibiliy, possible sterility, decrease in libido, possible early abortions, and risk to breast cancer (not to mention feeling like a "constantly available, neutered sexual object")…No thank you very much!
I really appreciate this man’s comments. After 20 years of marriage we’ve been had these talks some of our conclusions are below:
1. Wife should work to show modesty and beauty.
2. Husband accepts that if he won’t listen to ‘No’ wife will try to look bad to help him accept ‘no’ (subconsiously)
3. Wife should try to say ‘yes’ pleasantly every time she can, including putting the kids and house and schedule out of her mind and enjoy herself.
4. Husband accepts that he may have to help his wife reach the experience level, maturity and organization to be able to shut all those other parts of her brain off. We naturally multi-task which interfers with enjoying our husband.
5. Wife spends time praying, teaching her children to share the work, eating healthy, teaching the kids to stay healthy and teaches them to appreciate Dad. (15 min. pick up and hand washing before he comes home)
6. Husband spends time praying, teaching children to respect Mother, eating healthy, and gives mom time to pray excercise or destress knowing the kids are safe.
7. Wife realizes intimacy is supposed to be unitive not just fruitful and tries to make each time meaningful.
8. Husband realizes intimacy is supposed to be unitive so if she only said yes after pressure she is not feeling unified but coerced.
9. Wife realizes intimacy is supposed to be fruitful. She makes a genuine effort to find a good doctor or NFP teacher, to read her charts well, take her vitamins and be clear to her husband about fertile days. She considers it a blessing that her husband is attracted to her and faithful.
10. Husband realizes intimacy is supposed to be fruitful. He accepts the discomfort as a sign the Lord gave him the right woman and takes enough pressure off so he can hear her say ‘I love you and wish we could’. Her silence signals to him that she is too pressured.
11. Wives try to picture loving her teens as much as she loves babies. Open to life will mean being available when they need to talk, chaperoning, making her home open to all their friends. At some point you must mourne not having more because you will be unable to physically or mentally.
We aren’t at the end of the story. As I said earlier we had a year where we let this interfer with our faith and marraige till we sinned. I don’t know how the Lord will help us finish growing up without NFP. Although pre-menopause is certainly a cross for my poor husband.
NFP was a gift. I miss it many days.
Anne,
Great thoughtful comments!
I totally understand where you are coming from with the whole MTV/Hollywood mentality. I don’t support this. I guess I have seen many,many,many large (good Catholic)women who have a lot of children, dress very badly and have no spark in their life with their husbands. It just seems sad. I know you have just been married 1 month (congratulations)and your marital relations are exciting and stress free. (they should be) Wait 6 years and four kids later when money is almost non existant and you have bills that exceed income! STRESS!! Every sex session turns into are we going to get pregnant again! I don’t want to be a family asking for handouts. Is that what God intended? That I beg! For these reasons I work hard and unfortunately spend less time with my family than I would like.
This is a topic with major spiritual elements! I think most of us will work our whole lives through to come to a point where we trust Him in all circumstances with peace in our hearts.
We know a little about being open to the call of God concerning the addition of little people to the family. We only had two children at the time of our "decision" and felt extravagantly lucky that we did since they were both adopted at birth. One day after my husband left his stable and secure job with a big company with awesome benefits to begin his own business the telephone rang in our home. We had just made all these plans on how to survive financially during the start-up years and had down-sized to a small cozy cottage of a house. We were told there were twins to be born in 3 months and we were the chosen birth parents and did we want the babies. This threw us into a tailspin! We weren’t even pursuing an adoption at that time. My husband had already hit high stress mode and was even doubting his decisions to leave his secure career. In my heart I immediately knew that I loved the babies and wanted them and I felt it was God knocking on our door. I knew my husband would be apprehensive so I tried not to blow him over with my desire to adopt the babies. But good man that he is he intuitively knew they were to be ours and he smilingly said it looked like we were up for a new adventure. But I saw the doubt and worry in his eyes. I had worry also about this not being a good time for this to happen in our lives. But we said yes to what we perceived as God’s call and we have never looked back even though it was a trying, trying year. Our baby boy and girl are treasures and they brought smiles and laughter this family might not have had during that rough first year of business out on our own. And God provided the money to afford the adoption and all the ensuing diapers and food. He can never be outdone in generosity.
)
They had a saying in Italy at one time that every baby comes with a loaf of bread under his arm
Isn’t that beautiful?!
I rejoice when I see young couples like Anne and her husband starting out with the level of formation they have! If all our newlyweds understood these things before they began, the trying times would come with more peace. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, on your OWN intelligence rely NOT. In ALL your ways be mindful of Him, and He will direct your path."
We are not all called to have all the children we can physically have. Some of us are called to be childless, and some of us are called to adopt, and some of us are called to adopt and have our biological children as well.
God has a plan that includes all of us and what is best for our ultimate purpose; to know Him, love Him, and serve Him, so we can be happy forever with Him in HEAVEN.
It took me many years to get this. Our plans are not His, but He knows what is best. Suffering is from sin. But struggles are always there, no matter what. The struggles make us stronger when we put our faith in Him.
My husband has been "offshore" for work 2/3 of the year or more for the twelve years of our marriage. In 2005, thanks to hurricane Katrina that became 10 months.
4 homeschooling kids, and 2 miscarriages later, our marriage is stronger now than it was in the beginning. I lived with depression and finally figured out with God’s grace, that in my case, most of my depression was because I wasn’t living the life that "I planned". What I finally realized was that God allowed my husband to be away so much so I could learn to trust Him instead of "man". I aquired some humility, (and with improved diet and exercise)my depression lifted. I have been blessed.
With the first five pregnancies we used NFP, but only had book knowledge of the Billings method. We were "winging" it and it served our purposes. After the birth of number 4 we finally took a class in the sympto-thermal method. It has worked well, seeing how the baby is almost 4. We delayed pregnancy for health issues. Those issues have improved, and now we too are wondering when and if God wants us to try for another, or avoid pregnancy. God allowed us to conceive this past Spring, and then miscarry over Easter. It was as though I suffered my own small Triduum. God spoke powerfully to me through that. He is the author and finisher of all life. I must trust totally that my life is in His hands, and He has my best intrest in mind. I had a
V-8 moment (aha!) It seems that once I got that message, God has been able to use me in areas outside the home I never dreamed possible. (Thanks to "A Mother’s Rule of Life" and the Fly lady). How powerful God can be through us if we are willing instruments. God is love, so let us give back in genuine love, which is total self giving.
Anonymous2,
It sounds like you are buying into some unfair stereotypes about large families and that is scaring you. Sure there are fat, frumpy, neglectful wives who have many children, but there are gorgeous, stylish, attentive ones too (The majority of the ones I know fall into this category). And besides there are plenty of fat, frumpy, neglectful wives who happen to have small families. You say that your wife is not neglecting you and that she is "gorgeous." So be happy! Deal with problems if and when they arise in your marriage and don’t concern yourself with what you think are problems in other people’s marriages.
It appears that many of your concerns and complaints about using NFP are based on the pesky little fact that God has tied the "fun" of sex in with the potential "responsibility" of parenthood. Well there’s no changing that, and we humans simply must believe that God has a greater vision than we.
Well, Anon2, where do I begin?
I would never use birth control, and my husband would be even more strongly against it. Maybe because when you live the beauty of the Church’s teaching in the area of sexuality and fertility control, it becomes so clear how sexuality and fertility are part of a continuum that should not be interrupted by means outside of abstaining from our marital embrace during the fertile time. And Pope John Paul II speaks clearly of the woman not being an instrument for the man to use simply to fulfill his desires. The man is to become a TRUE man – master of himself and his desires, and a lover who puts aside his desire if the couple decides it’s time to postpone a pregnancy. The woman too must make great sacrifices as a lover – she is the one whose sexual desire is usually at it’s peak right during the time she’s fertile. Maybe she makes the greater sacrifice.
My husband and I had four kids by the time we reached our 6th anniversary, and the fifth came that year – so I understand your situation. With each one, it got just a bit harder to take the weight off – I’m sure age was a factor too. But I was bound and determined and exercised vigorously 5-6 days a week and was careful with what I ate, and so the weight came off. After our 6th baby, the ladies at the pool paid me a compliment – "Wow, you look great! You could be the poster child for large families". I kept that compliment in my pocket for years! But alas, 3 more babies and 7 more years later, at the age of 42 and one year post partum, it is increasingly more difficult to take the weight off. Still working out hard 5 days a week and watching my intake of food, but it’s much more of an uphill battle. You ask if women are supposed to succumb to the fact that she’s going to be fat after six babies. I say – NEVER give in! But realize with age, for most of us, the battle gets harder but it only "messes with you psychologically" if you allow it to. Here’s my point – pregnancies do take a toll on a woman’s body. So what? So does age! It’s great that you say your wife is gorgeous, and I hope that you will say that when she is 60, and 70 and 80. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know that’s a sorry cliche, but it’s so true. My husband is practically bald – he actually shaves or buzz cuts his hair now because it’s so thin, he has put on some weight over the years but would still be considered average, and has softened a bit around the edges. He’s not some buff dude that would turn heads. But you know what? He’s the most handsome guy to me! You know why? Because he loves me and the kids as Christ loves the Church. Because I respect him – his character, his intellect, his deep sense of integrity. And so I remain attracted to him as a person, not just the object of my sexual desire. The reverse is true – though my varicose veins have made my legs look a bit uncomely, and I’ve softened around the edges a bit, he values me as a whole person. Proverbs 31 tells us that "Charm is decetiful, and beauty vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised." It does Christian women a disservice when men and/or society put pressure on us to be beautiful when we are told in Scripture that beauty is vain. Of course most women want to be beautiful, but as Ann so wisely put, usually that is to draw attention to oneself, not quite a Godly or womanly characteristic. And beauty certainly is fleeting! I’d much rather spend my 40’s and 50’s raising my children than stressing over gray hair, a sagging chin, a body that won’t cooperate much anymore with losing weight, and society’s view of me. Way too many women are caught in the Botox, breast implant, plastic surgery trap.
What is beauty anyway? Was Mother Teresa beautiful? Absolutely. Her beauty was a true interior beauty, one of selfless service and giving to others, of prayerful reflection on the will of God. I hope to be as beautiful as her!
I’m not saying that our sex life isn’t important – it is one of the best parts of our relationship! Have you seen the new Cheaper by the Dozen? Steve Martin catches his wife "checking him out" and he quips "Twelve kids later and we still got the heat!". I love that line. We try our best in the midst of the effort to home school and raise nine kids to find moments to come together to be lovers, not just parents or teachers. There are seasons where it’s easy and seasons where we have to use some ingenuity to get together. My husband works as an ER doctor in a very busy ER, and works plenty of evening shifts, coming home at 1 or 2 in the morning. So we find ways to work around that, because we value our sexual relationship. It is so true, especially for a woman, that the sexual relationship doesn’t begin in the bedroom. My husband is so good about taking me on a date each week (to dinner and maybe a movie or even just errands together). He makes sure we get away for weekends or longer trips to have time just for each other. We have a mini-date every Monday night and watch "24" together. Yeah, we have to struggle around his schedule to make all this work. But as you said, the marital relationship is top priority. I hope all husbands will take this to heart and make sure they are spending that time with their wives.
I didn’t mean to ramble – sorry about that – it’s hard to resist a captive audience! Just trying to speak up for the many women I know who have large families yet still try their best to look nice and keep a nice home for their husbands (including Danielle – she looks awesome!). Fortunately for them and me, we have husbands who value us for MUCH more than our fleeting beauty, just as I’m sure you value your own wife for much more than that. As my husband says – We’re all headed for the grave – our bodies are slowly deteriorating over time – we’re all going to be in "the box" someday, and who cares if you need a little bit bigger box
.
One more thing, Anon2. You’re absolutely right at the end of your post – the marital relationship is top priority and should be nurtured throughout married life. That’s a challenge no matter how many kids you have, but it does get more difficult with a larger family. For most spouses I know, the intention is there and we are all (mostly) making the effort. No one is tellilng you you must have more children or you must have more right now. Openness to life is a very individual decision between a husband, wife, and our Lord. If you are feeling stressed, or your wife is, maybe God is saying to slow down for a bit in bearing children. Or maybe He is wanting you to look at how much you work or other areas of life that cause stress. I don’t know. That’s for you and your wife to discern. I have been so inspired by so many of the posts on this issue; they certainly give us a lot of food for thought.
Easy ladies. I’m not some crazy guy only concerned that my wife stays hot. She is so awesome in other aspects and that is why I married her. She happens to be hot as well! I understand all the stuff the Church says about woman as well. They are not objects used to fulfill our desires. That isn’t the case at all. Sex is supossed to be holy, uniting and wonderful. When you practice NFP all it is is holy and stressful. Yes I am open to new life, heck I already have 4 kids and I’m sure God will bless me with more. My gripe is that I don’t think it works well and all it does is bring more stress in my life. (By the way I’m not some sex crazed person, if I was to know when we are safe and when we are not I am happy with NFP, but you are never safe) Yes I pray to GOD daily for faith and I know I need more. It just becomes a cross that seems to heavy to bear.
By the way. I am happy you work out but let me tell you you are in the minority. And yes it is very important that you maintain a good figure. I don’t care what your husband says, us men want a very holy, funny, kind, loving wife but what we also want is somone we can show off to our co-workers and budies. That’s just the way we think. Us guys as well should maintain a good figure for all the same reasons for our wives.
My long discussion of NFP is here. The short version is NFP is not meant to used with the same mentality as artificial contraception. The secular contraceptive mentality says the default position is "no pregnancy". The exception is to discontinue contraception and allow a "planned" pregnancy to occur. The Catholic mentality says the default position is yes to the possibility of pregnancy. The exception is to use NFP to temporarily avoid conception for reasons that have been discerned through prayer and reflection.
Perhaps being open to life means more than just being open to an unlimited number of pregnancies. Perhaps it means being open to life in general–to nurturing it, to improving it, to modeling Christ’s love, not just for our own precious children or within our homes, but for so many others who may have so little hope and are in desperate need of our help. Perhaps some of us with smaller families nevertheless are "open" to trying to make life better for others among God’s children in ways someone with many children can not. And perhaps it’s wrong to judge ANYONE based solely on their family size. As others have already commented, God gave us both reproductive organs and minds. I can’t believe He intends us to use one but not the other. And please don’t overlook the fact that not everyone is married at 22 and a mother at 23. It takes some of us longer than others to become wives and mothers. I had my first at 36 and my second at 41. They are absolutely my greatest joy and my greatest blessing, and I thank God every day for them. And while my child-bearing years are at an end, I remain "open to life." It isn’t just about how many children you can bear, but how much love and concern you can offer all of God’s children.
Anon2-
It is interesting to hear a male perspective on this. You make some good points. The one that struck me was the one about keeping in shape for your husband. On this I think you are right. Men are so visual, and for them it is important, no matter what they say, for us to try to look good for them. Not only does it appeal to their visual senses, but it shows them, too that we love them enough to put forth the effort to put on some lipstick, and wear something that makes us look put together. We, as wives should make an effort to look feminine and nice for our husbands. I know mine appreciates it when I wear a pair of silky (yet still comfortable for sleeping in, and modest enough to wear around the kids) pj’s to bed instead of an oversized t-shirt and a pair of (oh so comfortable) frumpy pj pants. Also, it is a much better representation of a big Catholic family to have a mother who also looks nice. There is one family at our church with 9 or 10 kids, and the mom always looks great. Very put together and fashionable, as do all the kids. They make me want to follow their example, and a big family just looks so doable…. On the other hand, when I see a frumpy, haggard looking mom with 9 kids and it looks like all they had time to do was roll out of bed and fumble for the nearest article of clothing, I subconciously think…. ugh, I would never want to be them. It’s kind of like how a filet mignon served on a paper plate with no side dishes doesn’t appear as appetizing as a hot dog on nice china with candles lit and lots of yummy condiments and sides displayed nicely in pretty ceramic dishes.
As far as contraception goes, I would still not use it if the church okayed it. Partially for the physical side effects they cause, and partially because blocking out the possibility of new life would feel empty to me, even though at those times when I am fertile, and feeling not quite ready to add to the family, it is a struggle, because that is definitely when I have the most drive. And it does seem "unfair" but that is the way God intended it. We need that drive when we are fertile, so that we will want to procreate. I do think it is harder for the men, and I think my husband would be very tempted to use something if it were okayed….but I would talk him out of it.
You should read/listen to Christopher West. He is excellent on Theo of the Body.
This is always such a hot button issue!
There seem to be several camps
1. Providentialists- of which I myself am one. I liked the comment from the lady who was told that God’s will is always good news. Yes indeed.
2. NFP for any reason- we’re not ready, don’t want any more, can’t be bothered, our family is complete- we’ve decided
3. Those who use NFP because they think they must in order to be "responsible".
I don’t think life or God’s will is complicated. Something my mother used to say when I would puzzle over a dilemma. God isn’t trying to trick you. She had 9 c-sections by the way. Your children are and will be your greatest joy. What does it do to them psychologically and emotionally to think that their existence had to be agonized over, they had to be spaced appropriately and you had to come up with a good reason to have one more?
I say accept them as God sends them. St. Catherine of Siena’s mother (providentialist that she was) had 23. St. Catherine was the youngest. Life is not without difficulties, surprises, disappointments but in doing God’s will. The very devout St. John Vianney said, "There is many a woman in hell who would not have the children that God wanted her to have." And you know what- it takes more than making sure the means are licit. Be open to life and God’s will and you will advance spiritually.
Quick comment on contraception for Anon2…
When hubby and I were young and "smarter" than the church, I had 2-3 doses of Depo-Provera (less than one year, either 6 or 9 months) assuming that using artificial birth control was the smart way to go.
I have struggled with weight issues my entire life, so I was definately on the pudgy side BEFORE the depo, but I gained 100lbs while on depo…and that is what got me to stop! Now, some of it was lifestyle changes as I had been putting on some weight in the previous year (maybe 20 lbs) from less physical activity in college, but 100lbs in 6-9 months is not just "lifestyle change"
Unfortunately, I have been struggling with that for almost 7 years now. I got about 50lbs off before my first pregnancy, but didn’t get off all the pregnancy pounds from that kid before getting preggo with #2 (due in November). I want to have a large family, and I know that the only way to be able to do so is to get my weight under control, so I am trying to stick very closely to my docs recommended weight gain for this pregnancy, and plan to go back into weight loss mode in the new year (since that will be about 6 weeks postpartum)
I understand your concern for your wife’s figure, but I do think that being a healthy weight is more important to be ABLE to have a large family than it is for beauty’s sake. And I just wanted to point out that one major side effect in terms of beauty of contraception is that it can cause weight gain, and make weight loss less doable!
I feel like I know exactly where Anonymous2 is coming from, because I’ve heard everything he has said from my husband! We are also young, married 5 years, and expecting our 4th baby this year. Some things that have helped us (my husband, in particular) are Christopher West’s materials explaining JPII’s Theology of the Body, and encouragement from other faithful Catholics who don’t use NFP because of the STRESS it caused in their marriage relationships. Every couple has to discern for themselves, but for us, the stress of using NFP greatly exceeded the stress my husband feels from being more financially burdenend (i.e. not being able to have everything we WANT) and the stress I feel trying to meet the physical & emotional demands of all our young children (our oldest will be 4 1/2 when our 4th is born), keep a reasonably clean house, prepare meals, etc… If NFP isn’t helping your marriage, and you don’t have serious reasons to use it, maybe you shouldn’t. It is Church-approved, not Church-required. Our marriage and family life improved dramatically when we stopped worrying so much about the future and just started planning for it as best we could with the resources God provides us with today.
Choosing to trust completely in God is something I believe Kim Hahn describes as "heroic", and not for everyone, just as giving your life completely over to God as a priest or religious is a heroic sacrifice to which God calls certain people. Many people here have said it: it is not easy to raise a large family (I am the oldest of 2 children, and my mom says that it was not easy to raise a small one, either!) but if it is what God is calling you to do, then be assured that He will bless you with what you need, materially, and more than you can imagine, spritually, when you do His will (as attested to by MANY readers, here: thank you all for your encouragement)!
I’m with Mary Alexander – let the children come as God sees fit. Remember that God never sends anything we can’t handle – He will also send the means & grace to raise those children.
A few thoughts. One thing that hasn’t been mentioned about NFP is that the purpose of knowing your bodies cycles, and knowing whether or not you’re fertile at the moment, is not purely practical (i.e., not just for the use of deciding to have or not have a child). It’s also spiritual. If you know that this particular act can result in a child, then you are more able to be CO-CREATORS with God! You’re not just saying “yes, we’re open to life” abstractly, but particularly, imitating Mary’s “Fiat”. So by being attentive to your body, you can be more aware of precisely when you are/may be fulfilling the procreative aspect of the marriage act in addition to the unitive. Lots of room for grace there!
Another thing. Lots of people have mentioned using NFP as a means of avoiding pregnancy due to financial hardships. I wonder about that. You may be starving now, but who knows where you will be 9 months (or later, as a newborn doesn’t cost more than diapers) from now? There is truth to the proverb that every child comes with a loaf of bread under its arm.
One last thing, this time regarding the question of deciding how many children to have. I recently came across the following comment made during the Second Vatican Council by Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, who was Cardinal Ratzinger’s predecessor as Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:
"I am not pleased with the statement in the text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the Church. My father was a laborer, and the fear of having many children never entered my parents’ minds, because they trusted in Providence. [I am amazed] that yesterday in the Council it should have been said that there was doubt whether a correct stand had been taken hitherto on the principles governing marriage. Does this not mean that the inerrancy of the Church will be called into question? Or was not the Holy Spirit with His Church in past centuries to illuminate minds on this point of doctrine?"
This from a man who was an expert, THE expert, on Catholic doctrine. How did something which had never “been heard of in the Church” fifty years ago, become something considered by so many to be the right, “responsible” thing to do?
The very devout St. John Vianney said, "There is many a woman in hell who would not have the children that God wanted her to have."
Theologian I am not, but I believe that our Lord is a merciful one, and only HE understands the crosses that we have to bear. There are serious reasons for avoiding pregnancy, and for some those might be health and others emotional and others financial. Who are we to judge?
Very interesting reading and I very much appreciate the level of understanding of most of these comments. One thing I’d like to mention that I haven’t seen mentioned yet (I think – there’s a lot of words here!) is the use of fertility monitors. There are plenty of couples who seem like they need a little extra information and I’ve found that my fertility monitor – when used in conjunction with NFP – is just about perfect. I’ve always found that the information the monitor gives me coincides with my NFP findings, except it’s a little more conservative. It takes away a good amount of that "stress" that Anonymous2 mentioned. It’s guy friendly – what husband wouldn’t rather fool around with a hand-held fertility computation thingy instead of temps & mucous?
I know there are different kinds out there and I’ve been so interested in them that I’ve used 2 – the Clearblue one and the UK one, Persona. Persona is better, imo, and the best part is the Clearblue sticks fit the Persona machine, so once you order the Persona from overseas you can go to your local drugstore every three months for a box of test strips.
No, this isn’t for everybody and it certainly isn’t required, but my heart aches for those women out there who, for whatever reason, would love a little more information to be sure of how to act upon that information. Remember, it’s all God’s design; why wouldn’t I want to know as much as I can about it?
Setting aside the issue of whether or when one should use NFP in a marriage, the fact that Anon feels stressed that, having decided to use it, one cannot use it with certainty, makes me wonder whether this couple has selected the right method of NFP. My husband and I have recently switched to the Creighton model of NFP and we find it makes much more sense (for us) then the Sympto-thermal method that we learned in PreCana. For others, joining a couple to couple league might help to have some ongoing support with the method.
Interesting discussion.
There are two questions I have with regards to NFP itself:
(1) In which peer-reviewed journal was the clinical study published which reports this "98% effectiveness" figure? If it was not in fact a peer-reviewed published study, it’s not a reliable statistic.
(2) What is meant by "effective"? Some people believe that NFP is a "discernment tool" and thus it is always effective. This is disingenuous because NFP – in case you forgot – means "Natural Family Planning." That last word should be the metric of effectiveness. If one is "leaving it up to God" then he/she is not *planning*, per se. Effectiveness should mean "effectiveness of planning." We have four experimental cases:
1. Pregnancy engineered (ie conception as planned)|NFP
2. Unplanned conception|NFP
3. Pregnancy engineered (ie conception as planned)|~NFP
4. Unplanned conception|~NFP
This is a straightforward experimental design for a clinical trial.
Wow! There are so many comments about NFP.
Personally, once I knew about NFP (my first exposure was Marriage Prep – a sad situation, really), I was fascinated by it. The next month my husband and I headed way out of town to attend a class (the only one that jived with our work schedules). The teachers were very enthusiastic, and had such love in their eyes. They also told us of a need of more teachers. My fiance and I discussed it later and decided that we would volunteer to teach once we were really comfortable with using the method. (It turned out that I would chart on my own for a whole year before we actually got married & started living together & using it)
Unlike many couples, we attended (actually requested) a follow-up session (*hint here) and found out where we weren’t quite interpreting things right and why, and whenever we weren’t sure what was going on, a quick call to our teacher-couple or the teacher manning the team office was of immense help (instant de-stress!).
Once we had been married almost 2 years (almost 3 years later), we called our teacher-couple and said we were ready to train to become a teacher-couple. I was surprised that this isn’t something often heard by teacher-couples. We started training in September of 1992, and received our accreditation and started teaching in October of 1993.
During this whole process of using, studying, and teaching the Sympto-Thermal Method with Serena Canada, the topic is more and more fascinating for both of us.
Having my husband actively involved in all aspects (except for those observations only I can do) makes a HUGE difference. And, you know, if there’s ever a situation that comes up in my charts, or a student’s charts that we don’t completely understand or a situation that needs improvement (such as difficult to read mucus signs because there just isn’t enough of it showing in the cycle because I’m getting older or whatever), we still call another teacher-couple for advice. Every teacher-couple has something to add, and will tend to have areas of personal interest that make them extra well-equipped to speak to a particular issue. In the end, it doesn’t matter what organization you learned from, be it CCLI, Serena, or WOOMB, support is ALWAYS available, and teacher-couples are almost invariably delighted to hear from their students for ANY reason, and very glad to help.
If anyone has that common issue of not enough mucus to interpret properly, what I was told to do is “make sure you drink your 8 glasses of water a day, and start taking Flax Oil 1T/day.” Guess what? It really worked! Suggestion: Make a yogurt (or soy milk) and fruit smoothie & add your Flax Oil to it. It tastes great and gives a wonderful energy boost.
Another great thing about Flax Oil is that it contains precursers to some of the Essential Omega Fatty Acids including the ones necessary to proper nervous system function, joint lubrication, proper cardiac function, and other things so it’s good for you anyway. If you’re pregnant, the Omega acid DHA helps with baby’s brain development so you end up with a really smart baby – not kidding! My 3-year-old miracle boy is sometimes too smart for his own good (not to mention ours).
Another thing about mucus is that it’s needed for conception, so this tip might also help some who are trying to conceive. Fertile mucus allows the sperm to make it through the cervix.
Anyway, I digress. For those of you who are frustrated with NFP, call your teacher-couple, or team. Request follow-ups and extra information. Do social things with them and let their enthusiasm spill over into you. Talk to your spouse a lot. Talk about your feelings, your goals, your charts, and what you can do to be creative to achieve your goals. Pray together about your goals, your struggles, and give thanks for the whole works. God WILL bless you.
I hope this helps!
Elaine
To the Anonymous whose comment was deleted: I understand that you are frustrated by the St. John Vianney quotation but please do not turn it into something it is not. He was not talking about infertile women. Elena at My Domestic Church offered a thorough look into the background of this particular quotation a while back and you might benefit from taking a look at it. I personally have never cared for nor been comforted by this particular quotation, but I think it makes more sense when seen in its original context.
At any rate, I deleted your comment because I thought some of your generalizations about large families were unfair and be hurtful to the many mothers of many who visit here. Feel free to post again and even to express some of those same thoughts– just do so with charity.
Anonymous 2
I appreciate the guy’s perspective and agree with a lot of what you say, however, you seem to be implying that the Church’s teachings are inconsistent: sex is meant to be unitive, on the one hand (which we can interpret to mean "great!") yet, the only licit choice to avoid pregnancy is NFP. The fact is, being open to life is the only thing that truly ensures that sex is unitive. Contraception interferes with that unitive element as well. My question to you is What do you want? Do you want the Church to do something? If so, what?
By the way, you talk about pregnant sex being so great because pregnancy is not possible, well, from a women’s perspective that is often the case even if she has never feared pregnancy in all her marital life!
To Anonymous
The mere fact that your mother could not meet your emotional needs does not mean it cannot be done. And as for the older ones helping, you ask "Is that their job?" The answer is Yes. It is the job of the older kids to HELP with the younger–not raise them, but help with them and the upkeep of the house. This is called "raising good citizens".
I just realized my post sounded little abrupt…partly due to one handed typing while I nurse my baby! Sorry, meant to say it more gently.
Now I see the other annonymous comment is gone. So…nevermind
Anon2
Your posts claims to bring “radical comments from a man’s perspective.” You are half right. They are radical but I don’t believe you represent how men feel about their wives who are using NFP.
Don’t group the rest of us men in with your childish views on women, marital sex and “NFP(yuck)”.
Real men know that their wives body will not be 22 years old forever. I see my wife as far more beautiful at 36 and 6 kids later. She has shown me what real self-sacrificing love is. Not just with her words but with her entire life.
You say it seems like “during NFP sex is always bad.” Quite the opposite. NFP sex requires you to make each sexual act a total gift of self. This is good. Sterile sex is selfish. It turns your beloved into an object for your gratification. That is bad. The stress you complain of may be because your heart and soul is not where your actions are yet. My prayer is that time will change this for you.or me.
You talk about coming home to a wife who may not be dressed the way you want her to be and say “this simply isn’t fair.” (My children say that a lot) Try this. Hold a crucifix in your hands for 10 minutes. Gaze on our Lord on the cross and ask yourself what is fair. If this is your greatest cross consider yourself blessed. If you really want to see your wife all fancied up ask her out to a nice restaurant. Get over the clothes and see the woman.
As for the women at work who are “dressed to kill” you are correct. They are killing the soul by dressing immodestly and are creating a near occasion of sin for you to deal with. Pray for them and their daughters who see their example.
Want to decrease your financial stress? Try trusting Jesus’ word. “Do not be anxious saying what shall we eat or what shall we drink….but seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be given to you besides.” Mat 6:31-34. Lay up treasures for yourself in heaven. Give away some money to the poor. Sound like a contradiction? Try it and watch the Lord provide.
Real men can accept people’s charity. Don’t let pride stand in your way. This is part of God’s providence and it will foster the virtue of humility. God sent that person to you. Don’t turn them away. Accept their gift and thank them and thank God.
You just don’t sound at all like the men I know who are aware of catholic teaching and are using NFP and love the Lord. These men tend to know what a great gift God has given them in their faithful wives and aren’t very concerned about the things that seem to be so unfair to you.
Are you sure you are the identity you presented in your post?
I highly recommend Kimberly Hahn’s book "Life Giving Love" to anyone struggling with this issue. It completely changed my heart and my mind regarding children and how I view them. Once I read it, everything was different! I have recommended this book to many, many friends and know of at least six babies conceived by mothers who, like me, thought their families were complete.
Sometimes it is hard to trust God completely, without reservation. But I truly believe that if we abandon ourselves to His will in this area as well as all others, His graces will exceed our own limitations a thousand fold.
i would have been interested in anonymous comments, i think there is a place for his or her point of view (if shared charitably of course) because i do think it’s important that we as mom’s remember that we are not just here to be pro-creaters, we are here to be mothers. danielle is an excellent example of this (why i go to your blog daily) and she can do it and keep the faith and be humorous and loving and is certainly doing a good job meeting the needs of all her children, not only is she blessed but THEY are blessed as well. however it’s good to probably remember that not all of us may multitask as well…who knows what it may be, and we do need to think about the needs of our spouses and our children and make sure we have what it takes to meet them. prayer is a huge help (st. joseph is my go to guy), but i think we need to assess ourselves every once in a while and make sure we aren’t spending day after day yelling, that we aren’t over burdening our oldest children-they are getting childhoods too….that we do smile at our husbands and laugh with our kids…this IS important…that we bring JOY to our calling so that our children be it a small number or large number-feel loved and feel like the blessings that they are.
Someone mentioned to me on an unrelated topic that our peace is directly proportional to our faith and inversely proportional to our fears.
I think we just have to have faith that God will provide you with the patience, the finances, and the strength, to handle what He sends you. If not having total control of your fertility and family planning is scary, I think you just have to ask God for the grace of greater faith in Him and in His plan.
Additionally, I often hear from grandparents that they wished they had had more children, but rarely hear anyone regret having the children God sent them.
Im glad to see this and will return to read all 92 comments I feel the way the original writer feels overwhelmed to say the least that I am pregnant with my 4th. and as far as rules are concerned I should not be pregnant this time but God decided to have me ovulate a whole 10 days earlier than "normal" I know there is a reason in my heart for this but my head says "how on earth will I do this??? the anwer comes as "Earth has NOTHING to do with it , Lynn!" God’s grace thats how!!! I know I need to embrace this life God has given me hard times and easy times. So thanks for letting me know Im not the only one who struggles with the factr that not alll of us are ment to have or can handle 5 6 7 children, or can we ?After meeting with my Pastor for answers to moral and ethical questions what were never really answered I find peace here. and I hevent even read the comments yet! LOL For this I thank you and will offer up the fact that my kids are up at 6am (too early!!!), as a prayer for all of yo today!
Way to go, Markwings97! You said it better than any of us women could.
I would like to add this, to Anon2, and any other men who feel as he does: if you had to experience the physical changes brought on by pregnancy–the nausea, aches, pains, discomfort, swelling, weight gain, etc, etc,—not even to mention the pain of childbirth!—, you would get down on your knees and THANK your wife for making such sacrifices to bring your precious children into the world. And I don’t think you would be so concerned about her being a bit overweight, or about how she dresses.
Also, for NFP to work the way it’s supposed to, it has to be a team effort. If all you want is for your wife to tell you when it’s "OK" and when it’s not, you are missing the point. YOU are supposed to be as informed and involved in it as she is; you are supposed to be making it easier for her; you are supposed to make those fertile times a time of "second courtship" where you are affectionate in different ways and show her how much she means to you. Then when it is "OK" to come together, she will appreciate all your efforts and your time of intimacy will be all it’s supposed to be.
WOW!!!! You guys have totally not understood my post. With comments like WAY TO GO MARK it sounds as if I was put in my place. EASY folks. I came here for inspiration not some you are a sinner scolding!
I love my wife and THANK GOD for her daily, even if she were to gain 50 pounds. I love my wife and think she is beautiful even when she wears sweats and a baggy t-shirt. As I mentioned earlier my wife has so many great aspects about her that her beauty is simply one of them. I have already claimed that if I knew when it was safe (avoid pregnancy) using NFP I would love NFP. I understand the sacrifices of NFP regarding self-control etc.. and am fine with that. What I am not fine with is that my wife just had baby number 4 after 5 1/2 years of marriage and she needs a break! I believe and trust in GOD. So what do we do regardiing sex when the cycles are crazy? This is a common problem with NFP? Does my wife and I simply have to abstain for 12 months when she is done nursing the baby, for we all know that pregnancy is possible during the nursing time.
Mark, I have a great Catholic circle of 8-10 young couples and us guys all have the same problem with NFP. We are open to life, have sexual self-control but are financially strapped and are wives simply need a break. I love my wife so much I worry everyday if she is doing ok. We pray together everynight and find strength in God but that doesn’t mean that we still don’t suffer. You can’t take away feelings unless you are some robot.
Regarding the woman at work dressed to kill you lump all these woman as sinners and "killing the soul" WOW! I think Christ said something like "if you are without sin cast the first stone" You must not work in corporate America for they have dress codes that don’t allow low cut blouses or short skirts. I think it is great that a woman wants to look nice for those she deals with. How can you disagree with that!
Anon2,
I am sorry if my comment offended you. I just thought Mark did a great job of presenting the other side–as a man who practices NFP and doesn’t think it is "yuck"!. I did think you needed to be "put in your place" because of what came across as a very selfish attitude in your post. You even invited others to trash your comments. It did not seem like you came here looking for inspiration. It seemed like you just wanted to complain about not being able to use contraception, about how bad NFP is, how bad your sex life is, your wife’s weight, her clothes, etc…
Maybe I read it wrong. If what’s really bothering you is that you and your wife are having problems with reading her cycles, then there is help out there. Of course you don’t have to abstain for 12 months! Try learning a different method, contact someone who is more knowledgable, take a refresher class, buy a fertility monitor, etc. If you are having financial problems and your wife is overwhelmed, then no one would blame you for trying to postpone a pregnancy now. NFP does not exist to make your life miserable. God in His mercy has given it to us to help us. So instead of just assuming that it doesn’t work, go get the information you need to MAKE it work, because all the studies done on it show that it REALLY DOES, if you know how to do it right. I do hope this helps. I’m not here to argue with anyone. I pray that you and your wife find a solution. God bless.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, Anon2 about how you view your wife. I am sure you are a loving husband and you sound concerned about her welfare. Maybe I misread you when you used the term "hot" to describe her. In my humble opinion, the word "hot" is derogatory towards women and men alike when used to describe their appearance or demeanor. It is a word that is sexual in the way it is used today, and it implies that the person it is describing is simply an object of desire. Though it is a popular teen phrase, we don’t allow our teens to use that word to describe someone. Despite your latest post, your previous posts suggested that you want a trophy or eye candy on your arm to show off to your buddies. Maybe you were being flippant in that remark; I hope so.
Thanks Suz,
By the way a very important comment to make. My wife dresses to kill, she is in great shape and not overweight, and our s.. life is good (when we are safe). We are simply STRESSED!! I was bringing up those comments about many woman that I have seen and some that I know.
Teresa, my wife is not hot she in Smokin Hot! If it is sexual in nature, (which I don’t believe) she is my wife and we are sexual, and we aren’t teenagers. I think we are mature enough to say hot.
Dear Anon2, my brother in Christ, please be aware that some of your comments could very easily be misunderstood:
Your words: "NFP yuck" "How many of you would use contraception if the Church allowed it?"
Do you not realize that the practice of NFP is meant to strengthen your marriage so that you each give each other the gift of your selves with out the fear of being treated as an object? If I use contraception, I am inviting my husband to use me as a neutered object of his sexual desire. Women are deceived into thinking that contraception liberates them, but in fact, it is just the opposite.
Your words: "How about the physical shape of the woman? Is she simply supposed to succumb to the fact that she is going to be fat after having 6 plus kids? Doesn’t that mess with the psychology?" "My wife is hot, smokin hot. I am mature enought to say hot."
John Paul II’s words: "It is possible for a husband to look lustfully at his own wife, and so commit adultery with her in his heart. . . (This) lust reduces the riches of the deep attrativeness of masculinity and femininity, ot mere satisfaction of the sexual need of the body. . . In this way the mutual "for" is distorted, losing its character of communion of persons in favor of the utilitarian function. A man who looks in this way, uses the woman to satisfy his own instinct. Although he does not do so with an exterior act, he has already assumed this attitude deep down, inwardly deciding in this way with regard to a given woman. This is what adultery committed in the heart consists of. Man can commit this adultery in the heart also with regard to his own wife, if he treats her only as an object to satisfy instinct."
Anon2, I do not accuse you of the above, but it is well for every husband and wife to consider the Pope’s words carefully. Think of how we can change the world, if we live up to the high ideal that JPII presents in his Theology of the Body. See Christopher West!!
Does it mess with her psychology that you expect your wife to be "Barbie"? Thank God for heroic husbands who come home every day and kiss their wives and tell them they are beautiful (EVEN IF they are looking pretty tired and harried from a day of taking care of the kids, cleaning, and cooking and EVEN IF their shape has long ago filled out as a result of childbearing!) THe words to Marie Bellet’s song "One Heroic Moment" come to mind:
One heroic moment in an
ordinary day
Minute after minute, little steps
along the way
He knows HE MUST DENY HIMSELF FOR
THE MAN HE NEEDS TO BE
And each heroic moment SLOWLY
SETS HIM FREE!!!!
Your words: "When you practice NFP all it is is holy and stressful"
Again, NFP, when seen in the light of truth about the human body, is beautiful. I quote a paraphrase of JPII from the book, "Splendor of Love" by Fr. Walter Schu, LC:
"The eminently positive function of purity can be seen in St. Paul’s exhortation to control our own body "in holiness and honor." Abstention and self control are closely connected and dependent on each other. Self-mastery enables us to attain our dignity as persons. Only when a person has achieved self-mastery can he fulfill the law of the gift inscribed in his nature and give himself away out of love."
And a direct quote from JPII: "The satisfaction of the passions is one thing, and the joy that man finds in mastering himself more fully is another thing. In this way he can also become more fully a real gift for another person."
The very act of living through the times of abstention is strengthening you to become a gift for your wife! This can ONLY HAPPEN IF WE LEARN TO CONTROL OURSELVES! NFP gives us the tools to make this happen!
One last quote from "Splendor of Love":
"As our material body weakens, hastening us toward death (AS SO MANY OF US WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD CHILDREN CAN IDENTIFY WITH!), it enables our spirit to grow in beauty and virtue through ever deeper, more purified acts of self-giving love. The physical spending of our present body, like a candle that consumes itself, enriches the life of our soul."
May God give us all the capacity to love our spouses with that selfless, life-giving love that our belated Holy Father set as an ideal for all married couples! And may we be a witness to the world of the joy that it brings to our marriages and of the reflection our marriages are of the communion of persons that exist in the Trinity!
Very nice words Marie. Thanks for the good insights.
Going back to the original reader’s question. I do believe that yes, NFP can be very difficult, especially if you are inexperienced or not well trained when some sort of crazy cycles come your way. We learned NFP just before our second daughter was conceived. At that time, we realized that the only reason we had to delay pregnancy was to learn NFP and didn’t feel that was a good enough reason. We had the basics down, but we were still very confused when we went back to NFP after her birth. It was made even more frustrating and confusing by the diagnosis and subsequent treatment for thyroid cancer, which threw my entire body and endocrine system into mayhem. Couple that with the endocrinologist who recommended I NEVER have any more children, since the cancer seemed to be made to grow quicker during the pregnancy and you had a young (newly Catholic) couple who was very fearful and confused, but also trusted in the Lord and the wisdom of Holy Mother Church. I am pretty sure that daughter number 3 was a complete gift from God, as I do not think I had ovulated at all between babies number 2 and 3. This made that a time of very difficult charting and lots of abstaining since I really wasn’t sure what was going on. But, once pregnant, we knew that no matter what happened, God would be with us. I was still scared to death to tell my endocrinlogist about the pregnancy, however. But, even he has seen the grace of God in my life and I think has been touched by the witness God has allowed me to be. He as given me the go ahead to have more babies as long as I am healthy. I smile at that, since I know it will only be God who allows that. Through all of the ups and downs of all of this, we have struggled with NFP. It has not always been easy, especially for my husband. If he were less convinced that God is in control of our lives, it would be worse. But, I can honestly say, that our marriage is stronger for all the struggles and that we have grown closer than we thought possible through it all. I believe NFP has been instrumental in that. NFP requires you to face your fears on a monthly basis. Am I afraid that I will not be able to provide financially for my family? Am I afraid that I cannot be a good mother to the children I have now, never mind the possibility of future children? And what do we do with these fears? We can either wallow in them or we can give them over to God and beg Him for a big ol’ heaping helping of His Grace. It frustrates me to no end when my 8 year old refuses to let me help her with something that I know is too hard for her. How must God feel when we do the same to him? The fact of the matter is that without God we wouldn’t be able to do any of it. He is the one who makes it all possible. NFP simply allows us to use our resources to discover His will for our marriages and our lives. It comes down to a relationship with God and accepting His will in our lives whether we choose to practice NFP or "let nature take it’s course". The great thing about NFP is that it allows for "Father (in Heaven) knows best." If you practice NFP strictly by every rule you know and check and check and you still end up pregnant then you have to realize that that baby was willed by God and will be a very special person. I was very scared to find myself pregnant for a third time after all I had been through, but I can honestly say that that child has changed both my husband and my self for the better in countless ways. I pray that those of you who struggle with NFP will find God’s grace and peace in your lives. God Bless!
In response to Ian, and with respect to Danielle, here are some actual, verified statistics from peer-reviewed studies about the 2 most common modern methods of NFP.
Successful use of any method of NFP is dependent upon: couple motivation, competent teaching, understanding and following of the instructions.
Numbers in brackets correspond to the study references below.
Sympto-Thermal Method (Serena, C.C.L.I., etc.)
Percentages of pregnancies during the first year of :
perfect use to avoid pregnancy : 0.5 % (1) – 2 % (2)
typical use to avoid pregnancy : 3% (3) – 10.9 % (4)
Ovulation Method (W.O.O.M.B., etc.)
Percentages of pregnancies during the first year of :
perfect use to avoid pregnancy : 1% (5) – 3 % (2)
typical use to avoid pregnancy : 2.5 % (6) – 19.6 % (7)
REFERENCES
(1) RICE FJ, LANCTÔT CAL et al. The Effectiveness of the Sympto-thermal Method of Natural Family Planning : An International Study. Int. J. Fertil., 1981 ; 26, 3, 222-230.
(2) TRUSSELL J, KOWAL D. The Essentials of Contraception. Chap. 9 in Contraceptive Technology by HATCHER J, TRUSSELL J et al. Ardent Media, New York 1998, p. 216.
(3) FRANK-HERRMANN P, FREUNDL G et al. Natural Family Planning with and without Barrier Method Use in the Fertile Phase : Efficacy in Relation to Sexual Behavior – A German Prospective Long-Term Study. Advances in Contraception, 1997 ; 13, 2/3, 179-189.
(4) WADE ME, McCARTHY P. A Randomized Prospective Study of the Use-Effectiveness of Two Methods of Natural Family Planning. Am. J. Obstet. Gynecol., 1981, 141, 4 : 368-376.
(5) KLAUS H, GOEBEL JM et al. Use-effectiveness and Client Satisfaction in Six Centers Teaching the Billings Ovulation Method. Contraception, 1979 : 19, 613-629.
(6) THAPA S, WONGA MV et al. Efficacy of Three Variations of Periodic Abstinence for Family Planning in Indonesia. Studies in Family Planning, 1990 ; 21, 6, 327-334.
(7) WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION. A Prospective Multicentre Trial of the Ovulation Method of Natural Family Planning. II. The Effectiveness Fase. Fertility and Sterility, 1981 ; 36, 5, 591-598.